E flat major

[teamsaint]

Very interesting MrGG.
I noticed the book you recommended, are there any recordings that you would recommend listening to?

also, do you know if long term exposure to music , in terms of performance, enables people to develop some sort of perfect pitch facility?

[ostuni]

Baritones and tenors need different keys but does this, on the basis of effect of keys on the mood of music make a difference, to the final sound.

Well it does, if different songs in a cycle are transposed by different amounts. Slightly OT, but one of my bugbears is the way baritones treat cycles like Winterreise, transposing typically between a major 3rd down and not at all from song to song, thus destroying not only Schubert's original key relationships, but also the way that some songs were written higher in the voice than others.

[maestro267]

Might sound an odd question, but is it ever a problem or irritation...or is it only ever useful?

It's mostly useful. It certainly helps if I want to learn to play a song. But I do have problems with Baroque music and the current trend for 'historically informed performance', which pitches these works usually a full semitone flat compared to modern pitch, so we get Bach's Mass in B flat minor instead. But then, even if it was in modern pitch, I'd still probably prefer works with a larger palate of colours in the orchestra anyway.

Also, it sometimes irritates me when modern pop/rock performers transpose their songs in live performance, hence altering the mood of the song for me. 95% of the reason I like the songs I like is because of the music rather than the words. Then, on the other hand, sometimes a change of key may make me like a song whereas before I wouldn't.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"Perfect" pitch is a bit of a myth IMV

Now then, stop trying to be clever, MrGG. The term itself is inaccurate and is better termed as Absolute Pitch.

By the way, I always use my tuning meter when playing my tuning "A".

[verismissimo]

If I was born with HIPP "perfect pitch" would the LSO sound "out of tune" ?

Vladimir Jurowski, who mostly conducts the LPO and Russian National Orchestra, also takes regular detours with the OAE. He's been reported as saying that the first rehearsal with them is always a bit painful as his ear retunes from 440 to whatever pitch they are at for that concert.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sometimes professional singers have entire sections transposed to suit their voices. (I bet the orchestra members really hate that.)

Examples include some of Pavarotti's later performances of La Boheme (Act 1) including the San Francisco DVD with Mirella Freni.
Another is Joan Sutherland singing "I Know that my Redeemer Liveth" up a tone in F sharp major, on Bonynge's recording of "Messiah".

[vinteuil]

"Perfect" pitch is a bit of a myth IMV

/ .. /

If I had "perfect pitch" what would it be tuned to ?
A =442
A=440 ?
A=436
etc etc
and at what age would it have been set ?
If I was born with HIPP "perfect pitch" would the LSO sound "out of tune" ?

I agree. Most of the music I listen to or play is in a wide range of pitches , and very seldom is it at A = 440.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch

[cloughie]

Well it does, if different songs in a cycle are transposed by different amounts. Slightly OT, but one of my bugbears is the way baritones treat cycles like Winterreise, transposing typically between a major 3rd down and not at all from song to song, thus destroying not only Schubert's original key relationships, but also the way that some songs were written higher in the voice than others.

I guess quite naughty but it preserves the baritone's comfort zone.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I agree. Most of the music I listen to or play is in a wide range of pitches , and very seldom is it at A = 440.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch

I bet the musical instrument industry is laughing all the way to the bank.

[teamsaint]

I bet the musical instrument industry is laughing all the way to the bank.

well, I'm sure you agree, rather them than some other manufacturers I can think of.....land mines, for instance!

[MrGongGong]

Now then, stop trying to be clever, MrGG. The term itself is inaccurate and is better termed as Absolute Pitch.

By the way, I always use my tuning meter when playing my tuning "A".

indeed
and do you go for 440 or 442 or something more esoteric ? (like the Henry Wood method of having two tuning forks , one for the strings and one for the wind !....... I seem to remember that they used to be in a case in the entrance of the RAM ???)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

indeed
and do you go for 440 or 442 or something more esoteric ? (like the Henry Wood method of having two tuning forks , one for the strings and one for the wind !....... I seem to remember that they used to be in a case in the entrance of the RAM ???)

440. Why be difficult?

[MrGongGong]

440. Why be difficult?

A=440
how quaint and unusual

what happens if you have someone playing (for example) a modern Marimba or Tubular bells or even most modern instruments ?

[makropulos]

What is it about this key ? A favourite since learning the piano as a kid.

I just prefer Elgar's Second Symphony to the First: the key clinches it.

E flat major - I so agree! it is the key of so many favourite works - Bach's Cantata 140, Mozart's Sinfonia concertante K364, Piano Concerto K482 (No. 22), Symphony No. 39, Magic Flute... Beethoven's Eroica, Emperor Concerto, Op. 127 Quartet... Schubert's glorious E flat Mass, Schumann's Rhenish Symphony, Piano Quartet and Piano Quintet, Mendelssohn's Octet, Bruckner 4, Mahler 8, Elgar 2, Strauss's Heldenleben and so much else besides... And coincidentally as I type this I'm listening to Martha Argerich playing Liszt's E flat Piano Concerto. And on and on...

[makropulos]

Probably nothing. But I do find that I'm less than impressed most "great" works composed in this key:
Beethoven Symphony no 4
Beethoven Piano Concerto no 2
Beethoven Piano Sonatas in B flat, including the "Hammerklaver"
Mozart's 33rd Symphony and 27th Piano Concerto and his Piano Sonatas in the the same key

Exception - Brahms's 2nd Piano Concerto

Are you really "less than impressed" by Schubert's Sonata D960? Or by Beethoven's Archduke Trio and Op. 130 Quartet??