E flat major

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I do think that keys that permit few or no open strings do have a palpable effect - and I'm sure that many composers thought they do.

Good point, Pabs; and I wonder how different tunings affect listeners. The Los Angeles PO and the OAE both playing the Eroica could effectively play the work in "different" keys: does this affect the "mood" of the works as much as differences in tempo, balance, timbre etc?

(PS: I prefer the Elgar Second to his First - love 'em both, but the depth and construction of the Second as a whole seem to me much more satisfactory than that of the First.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I love the Mendelssohn Octet
... do I love it because it is in E flat major ? ........................... probably not

This illustrates Pabs' point: the very first note of the opening first Violin melody is the open G string, which gives a distinct sound - which creates a distinct effect. (Open string sounds also start the second movement).

But (to continue my earlier question) I don't know, if the players used scordatura retuning down a semitone (so keeping the open strings), whether the effect of the work (now in D major) would be noticeable to anyone without pefect pitch?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Indeed, orchestral fashion had changed by the time he got to make the electrical recording.

Now I suspect know from whom you got that little snippet.
But listen to Elgar's 1914 pre-electric recording of Carissima, and those that followed. Now it could be argued that the "fashion" suddenly changed between 1908 and 1914...


Sorry, I'm getting off topic.

E flat. Yes. It's a key with a satisfying solidity. Unlike B flat, which is as dull as ditchwater...

[mercia]

[what's dull about Beethoven's 4th Symphony? ]

I'm guessing (wildly) that some keys are more difficult for some instruments to play in than other keys
but which keys and which instruments I wouldn't know

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't know, if the players used scordatura retuning down a semitone (so keeping the open strings), whether the effect of the work (now in D major) would be noticeable to anyone without pefect pitch?

Ostensibly arguing against my earlier point, in my case, being near pitch-perfect, it would; but this would surely be a matter of having been conditioned to "hear" a particular work as being in the specified key, although I actually think this is just a matter of attunement [sic].

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

[what's dull about Beethoven's 4th Symphony? ]

Probably nothing. But I do find that I'm less than impressed most "great" works composed in this key:
Beethoven Symphony no 4
Beethoven Piano Concerto no 2
Beethoven Piano Sonatas in B flat, including the "Hammerklaver"
Mozart's 33rd Symphony and 27th Piano Concerto and his Piano Sonatas in the the same key

Exception - Brahms's 2nd Piano Concerto

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

..and a song that is built entirely on the scale ...

[EdgeleyRob]

Having had no musical education,the key a work is in makes no difference to me,it's just part of the title of the piece I suppose.
I do like the sound of the words 'in C sharp minor' though, no idea why.

[teamsaint]

Having had no musical education,the key a work is in makes no difference to me,it's just part of the title of the piece I suppose.
I do like the sound of the words 'in C sharp minor' though, no idea why.

I think Rachmaninov went off C#Minor pretty quickly !

Having had some, but not much formal musical education, I do often wonder, apart from some technical issues, how much difference a small change in key would make.(or if, say, a piano piece was written in a key a fourth higher then transposed down a major third in performance. )
Some blind tests would be interesting.

[verismissimo]

Indeed, orchestral fashion had changed by the time he got to make the electrical recording.

To my ears the major change between Elgar's acoustic recording of S2 in 1924/25 and the electrical one of just two years later is not in the vibrato, but in the reduction of sliding between and into notes. Did that become non-pc in the mid 1920s?

[Pabmusic]

...Having had some, but not much formal musical education, I do often wonder, apart from some technical issues, how much difference a small change in key would make.(or if, say, a piano piece was written in a key a fourth higher then transposed down a major third in performance. )
Some blind tests would be interesting.

There may well be differences in the ease or difficulty of playing a piece in a 'foreign' key. Imagine (from the pianist's point of view, first) the Schubert Impromptu in G-flat played in, say, C. The fingering and hand positions would be so very different, it would qualify as a 'new' piece. Of course it would sound different, in this case, since it would lie much higher or lower than the original - enough for the most untrained ear to notice.

[teamsaint]

There may well be differences in the ease or difficulty of playing a piece in a 'foreign' key. Imagine (from the pianist's point of view, first) the Schubert Impromptu in G-flat played in, say, C. The fingering and hand positions would be so very different, it would qualify as a 'new' piece. Of course it would sound different, in this case, since it would lie much higher or lower than the original - enough for the most untrained ear to notice.

Yes, I recognise the technical issues,(or which there are legion, not least for singers) which are clearly critical in the original choice. And its also clear that a key change of any great distance, perhaps more than a tone would be pretty obvious even to an untutored ear.
i guess its more a matter of academic interest....would Elgar 2 sound so different in F major? perhaps it would. And if himself decreed Eb , then who are we to question?!

No doubt modern computers could move stuff around easily..might be fun to be tested !I'll volunteer !

[MrGongGong]

Essential reading IMV

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/How_Equal_Temperament_Ruined_Harmony_and.html?id=i5LC7Csnw7UC&redir_esc=y

[Pabmusic]

Yes, I recognise the technical issues,(or which there are legion, not least for singers) which are clearly critical in the original choice. And its also clear that a key change of any great distance, perhaps more than a tone would be pretty obvious even to an untutored ear.
i guess its more a matter of academic interest....would Elgar 2 sound so different in F major? perhaps it would. And if himself decreed Eb , then who are we to question?!

No doubt modern computers could move stuff around easily..might be fun to be tested !I'll volunteer !

The keys of many of George Butterworth's Shropshire Lad songs were altered between the early performances and publication. It was clearly GSKB's doing, since the original (in Eton College library) and the publisher's fair copy (in the Bodleian) are both in his hand. An example is The lads in their hundreds, which went up a semitone from F to F-sharp. These were presumably for the singer's convenience, but it's not really obvious.