Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo
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Yippeeeee ... ahem
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heliocentric
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...well he might have taken the totemic issue further, and the myths and intoxication combined with a fuhrer prinzip in art were most unfortunate precursors ... but i freely admit i can not be rational or discursive here ...i am content to just not like the man or his work and occasionally say so, i hope without offence to those who do find the work, at least, irresistible ...
i am fully aware that W's orchestral writing is sublime and inspired the world of music ...but the operas, the personality and the politics are for me utterly detestable ...According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.
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Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostI suspect many here have shared my experience of utter intoxication with Wagner, the Ring especially, I guess for 10 or 15 years, and then the feeling that it was over - I'm not sure it will ever return... if an excerpt surprises me in a film or on the radio, I can still be seized by it... it retains a unique power. Even now, if I think through the last few minutes of The Ring, I can easily find myself in tears again!"The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink
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amateur51
Originally posted by Petrushka View PostI recognise this! Listening to the Karajan Ring (Rheingold and Walkure) last week I was immediately transported back to the very early 1970s, the period of my 'utter intoxication', and it's every bit as potent as Beatles songs which transport me back to the 1960s.
Whenever I hear the Beatles I'm 16 again
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Originally posted by amateur51 View PostI've not heard any of the Karajan effort - would you recommend it?
I bought my set in the Oxford Street HMV Summer Sale in 2010 for £40."The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink
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heliocentric
Originally posted by amateur51 View PostI've not heard any of the Karajan effort - would you recommend it?
I was in my 40s (that's Earth years of course; on Saturn I wasn't quite two) when my fascination for Wagner's music began, so I went into it with my (political) eyes fully open. I don't know if this is the place for a discussion of whether and how someone of socialist convictions might achieve that, but in a nutshell my current feeling is that in Eddie Prévost's words "no sound is innocent"; if you're going to interrogate Wagner's music to expose the contradictions in it, and the tensions between progressive and reactionary thinking, between the Wagner of the attempted 1849 revolution in Dresden and the Wagner of Das Judentum in die Musik, you should really extend that to other musicians too. Miles Davis doesn't look too good from a feminist perspective, for example. Every generalised dismissal of Wagner's music on political grounds is a little victory for the enemy IMO. But if you don't like the sound of it that's another thing.
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don't like the operas full stop ....later learnt to mistrust the composer ...dislike of the operas was an instinctive ugh reaction that has not softened over the decades, then would not spend time on the stuff having read about him ....
no sane person would want to be in the same room as Miles Davis for more than two minutes if it was not a performance arena of some sort .... jazz is well sprinkled with psychopathic junkies who produced great music ...According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.
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