Ignorance of classical music - does it matter?

[Pabmusic]

Part of the difficulty of teaching children to appreciate serious music is that in life now they are not taught or encouraged to concentrate on anything! It matters little whether this is music, poetry, Shakespeare#s plays or observing nature. Emails are reduced to texts and texts to tweets. Populist TV offers little more than 60 seconds of any topic before moving on. Even Musical talent shows cannot bear to give an act 3 minutes to sing a pop song - it is abbreviated to two verses and the screaming payoff. ADHD is seen as a syndrome and not a conditioned habit and therefore something to be accepted rather than remediated. In this environment is it any wonder that no child is going to listen to more than 5 minutes of any piece of music without getting twitchy and bored? There is no understanding of development; the engagement is only ever superficial. A child subjected to a fast paced bee-and-flower lifestyle for 167 hours a week is not going to sit quietly to contemplate the meaning of a symphonic construction. Opera is a Nessan Dorma soundbite of 15 seconds - Classical Music is the opening 15 seconds of Carmina Burana -(or worse still some anodyne offering from Karl Jenkins. Whither Soft Machine now, eh Karl?)

What a good post! You're so right. I think of it as the 'remote control' phenomenon - when a TV programme loses its appeal, it's so easy to change the channel. We then start changing channels (subtle shift) because it's so easy to do so, and in the constant hope of finding something better. But we rarely do; we loiter in a haze of dissatisfaction caused by the convenience of choice. The same happens with almost all things in our lives. It is encouraged by all branches of the media, which try to 'make things easy' for us - the most obvious example is the 'London, England' phenomenon, which started off as American but now is the norm here. Bill Bryson summed it up well, when he commented that the media is trying to spare its readers/listeners/viewers having to go through the process of "Now say...London, is that in Nebraska?".

The inability to concentrate is part of this decline, in inverse proportion to the degree of 'comfort' of modernity. I used to conduct amateurs who, not surprisingly, were not used to concentrating beyond the length of a symphonic movement in a style no more unexpected than, say, the first movements of Schubert 9, Brahms 3, or Dvorak 8. One piece that invariably caused problems was the Siegfried-Idyll, because it is not a 'classical' sonata-form movement, but it lasts about 18 minutes (at least it did the way I conducted). The requirement to concentrate for that length of time really took it out of some players - and these were people well used to classical music. Bruckner was out of the question!

It's difficult to see what might be done - we are not going to un-invent our labour-saving (thinking-saving?) devices - but it is a pity that we have lost 50- and 60-over cricket matches in favour of 20-over slogs.

[heliocentric]

I don't know what you would accept as evidence, but you might agree that classical music is being crowded out in everyone's daily lives by popular music (like it or not).

I do agree, but it seems to me that this situation hasn't changed so very much in the last few decades. I could say that when I was at school in the 1970s I was the only one of my circle of friends who listened to classical music (let alone the even less "popular" things I was listening to), but I would be more interested in trying to stay away from presenting personal anecdotes as evidence of one thing or another.

[Flosshilde]

part-time musicians (the "gig" boys with a safe day job) formed 90% of the Musicians Union membership.

That was our problem, as full-time professionals. Local branch commitees of the MU were almost totally dominated by part-time musicians; because they were the only ones with free time to attend meetings on Sunday mornings.

I think the 'part-time' phenomenon applies to most artists - very few of the people I know make a living from their work; most have jobs & persue their art careers in the gaps between - during the evening & weekends (they don't have 'free time' on Sunday mornings), or they have partners with jobs that pay well enough to support both of them.

[aeolium]

It's strange to me that if there is so much widespread ignorance of classical music today the classical music repertoire available on disc (and other media) is enormously greater than that of 50 years ago, there are a lot more opportunities for concert-going (summer festivals etc) than there used to be, and there are two 24-hour radio stations devoted solely (Classic FM) or principally (R3) to classical music. The ignorance, if it is there, is not for want of opportunity.

I don't know about the nature of music education in schools today but I should have thought it ought to provide a basic understanding of the elements of music with examples from a variety of different musics, as well as opportunities for individual and group performance. I'd be wary about trying to focus unduly on classical music which would seem to smack of an old-style Eurocentric approach which - in history for instance - can leave many people ignorant of non-European cultures, their history and their arts. To this day I remain shamefully ignorant of all sorts of non-European music which is surely as important for the cultures which produced it as classical music is for European culture. So any musical education ought to provide the basic tools for people to appreciate many different types of music, not one in particular.

[heliocentric]

Indeed so, aeolium. (Although what you're suggesting would no doubt be regarded by some as "political correctness gone mad".) Such a musical education would have all kinds of benefits. But the problem is there isn't time in school curricula to treat what is officially regarded as a marginal and unimportant subject in that comprehensive way, despite all the research showing the more general benefits of music in education, because official education policy is so misdirected in so many ways (modern languages being another obvious area where this is the case).

[Serial_Apologist]

It's strange to me that if there is so much widespread ignorance of classical music today the classical music repertoire available on disc (and other media) is enormously greater than that of 50 years ago, there are a lot more opportunities for concert-going (summer festivals etc) than there used to be, and there are two 24-hour radio stations devoted solely (Classic FM) or principally (R3) to classical music. The ignorance, if it is there, is not for want of opportunity.

I don't know about the nature of music education in schools today but I should have thought it ought to provide a basic understanding of the elements of music with examples from a variety of different musics, as well as opportunities for individual and group performance. I'd be wary about trying to focus unduly on classical music which would seem to smack of an old-style Eurocentric approach which - in history for instance - can leave many people ignorant of non-European cultures, their history and their arts. To this day I remain shamefully ignorant of all sorts of non-European music which is surely as important for the cultures which produced it as classical music is for European culture. So any musical education ought to provide the basic tools for people to appreciate many different types of music, not one in particular.

I think R3 does this fairly well, aeolium, albeit that there could be more of programmes for the kinds of music you're advocating greater knowledge of eg Late Junction. Where present programming policies on R3 (currently and for some time now) and Classic FM (by virtue of its brief) fall down is in shovelling off challenging/more marginalised areas of the Euroclassical tradition to graveyard times of the evening and night, and tailoring morning schedules to the shortened attention span so well described in the above posts. This imv is part of the problem this thread is discussing.

[Hornspieler]

I think R3 does this fairly well, aeolium, albeit that there could be more of programmes for the kinds of music you're advocating greater knowledge of eg Late Junction. Where present programming policies on R3 (currently and for some time now) and Classic FM (by virtue of its brief) fall down is in shovelling off challenging/more marginalised areas of the Euroclassical tradition to graveyard times of the evening and night, and tailoring morning schedules to the shortened attention span so well described in the above posts. This imv is part of the problem this thread is discussing.

There is a bridge between classical music and pop music which is largely ignored by the BBC. I refer, of course, to "Light Classical Music" for want of a better name.

The music of Gordon Jacob, Frederick Curzon, Ronald Duncan, Leroy Anderson, Eric Coates, Gilbert Vinter - the sort of music that we used to hear on "Housewife's Choice" like Wolf-Ferrari's "Jewells of the Madonna" or Litolff's scherzo from his concerto symphonique.

Listened to and enjoyed at 9.30 in the morning in practically every kitchen in the country, years ago. Tunes that you could hum to, wash dishes to, and enjoy melody for melody's sake.

You won't even hear those composers works now on Classic FM or Radio 2; let alone on Radio 3.

Public taste is constantly changing - even in regard to what we call classical music. Nobody is seeking to hear more plainchant these days but one might argue that that is classical music with a big provenance (to use the Antique Dealers' term)

HS

[MrGongGong]

Rick Wakeman said something interesting on the BBC4 Mrs Mills documentary (I know I should be working but got hideous cold !)
about how there wouldn't be room in music for her style 10 years ago but today things are quite different and that people are more open to listen to a wide variety of music.
Open ears .........

[vinteuil]

There is a bridge between classical music and pop music which is largely ignored by the BBC. I refer, of course, to "Light Classical Music" for want of a better name.
The music of Gordon Jacob, Frederick Curzon, Ronald Duncan, Leroy Anderson, Eric Coates, Gilbert Vinter - the sort of music that we used to hear on "Housewife's Choice" like Wolf-Ferrari's "Jewells of the Madonna" or Litolff's scherzo from his concerto symphonique.
Listened to and enjoyed at 9.30 in the morning in practically every kitchen in the country, years ago. Tunes that you could hum to, wash dishes to, and enjoy melody for melody's sake.
You won't even hear those composers works now on Classic FM or Radio 2; let alone on Radio 3.

... as far as I can see we have far too much Light Music (especially when Rob Cowan is on the throne) on radio 3 in the morning - Leroy Anderson, Eric Coates, Wolf-Ferrari and Litolff's bloody scherzo are far too much in evidence . .

[I wonder if Hornspieler can have been listening to Radio 3 in the morning of late?? ]

[gradus]

Perhaps due to sonic conditioning/listening as a child, I enjoy light music and would be happy to hear more broadcast. It is often memorably tuneful and thus easy to whistle, not too loud and being mostly scored for acoustic instruments with the occasional typewriter thrown in, probably prepared my ears for the tuneful and louder (sometimes) offerings of messrs Tchaikovsky, Greig etc. So, more Coronation Scot, Belle of the Ball etc please.

[salymap]

To me there is confusion here over tuneful music by the likes of Wolf-Ferrari, Gordon Jacob and sometimes Malcolm Arnold, etc and real light music. Light music is 'Jumping Bean', 'The Typewriter'.'Portraitof a Flirt'.

In my youth there was far too much of the latter rather mindless stuff on the radio but I value the former worthwhile pieces.

[Karafan]

I often recall, with amusement, a foreword to a book* written by Sir Thomas Beecham towards the end of his life in which he lamented the 'modern' trend toward ignorance of classical music. He shuddered at the prospect of street traders who could summon up no more that a handful of operatic arias and concluded by roundly asserting that society was rapidly descending into a bubbling pit of frivolity of its own making(!). Rather prescient of him.

*PS I have since tried, in vain, to locate the actual quotation. If anyone can help locate it I would be most appreciative (I thought it perhaps in the introduction to A mingled chime, but I cannot see it there. Possibly he was writing a foreword to someone else's book?

Karafan

[Serial_Apologist]

To me there is confusion here over tuneful music by the likes of Wolf-Ferrari, Gordon Jacob and sometimes Malcolm Arnold, etc and real light music. Light music is 'Jumping Bean', 'The Typewriter'.'Portraitof a Flirt'.

In my youth there was far too much of the latter rather mindless stuff on the radio

Oh but saly it fills me with nostalgia for my 1950s childhood, when light music represented a soundtrack to the civilised future world of adulthood.

[MrGongGong]

Oh but saly it fills me with nostalgia for my 1950s childhood, when light music represented a soundtrack to the civilised future world of adulthood.

more than "Le marteau sans maître" ?

[Serial_Apologist]

more than "Le marteau sans maître" ?

Oh I didn't hear anything more advanced than Bartok PC No 3 until I was at least 16, GG (ie. in 1961) Fwir "Le Marteau" was first broadcast in the UK in 1964. Richard Rodney Bennett and Cornelius Cardew in the group. I taped a re-broadcast of that original broadcast a few years ago.