Ignorance of classical music - does it matter?

[MrGongGong]

I respect your contributions to this MB but, I'm sorry to say, saying that young people are aware of the "soundworld" of classical music is one of the most meaningless statements I have ever heard.

Everyone is aware of the "soundworld" through films, TV etc but being aware of how (some) classical music sounds is like saying, in the context of art, that young people know what pictures look like. It is a silly comment.

So it's "silly" to suggest that people know a lot about something (what it sounds like) but can't name it ?
IMV it's very "silly" to suggest that young people haven't heard "classical music" when they obviously have

what is the problem with focussing on the sound of things ?

[doversoul1]

MrGongGong

what is the problem with focussing on the sound of things ?

Because classical music is not just sound. If the member’s memories posted on these boards are anything to go by, it is the music in its form that attracted the child, and not the ‘sonic world’, which I take it to mean a physical phenomenon that has no meaning in itself.

If your aim is to make children aware of the fact that different things make different sounds as part of wider ‘education’, that’s fine, but it is a very long way from introducing children to classical music. And if you don’t believe that children need to be introduced to classical music (I don’t think we need to go into the definition of classical music in this ‘context’), beyond 'soundworld', at school, well, that’s the end of discussion.

[MrGongGong]

If your aim is to make children aware of the fact that different things make different sounds as part of wider ‘education’, that’s fine, but it is a very long way from introducing children to classical music. .

Actually for me it's exactly the opposite

You are right in that music isn't "just sound"
BUT the sound part of music is often the bit that is missing
when I have sat in a hall listening to The Rite of Spring, Merzbow,The Maggini Quartet, Gillian Weir playing Messiaen it's the SOUND that is primary not Genre, not tradition, not harmony, not narrative but the sound the music makes and how that affects me and how that affects other people in other ways.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm sorry, but I don't get this. Are you referring to the fact that once upon a time, children might be told about the lives of the great composers to the exclusion of hearing the music?

[Serial_Apologist]

Actually for me it's exactly the opposite

You are right in that music isn't "just sound"
BUT the sound part of music is often the bit that is missing
when I have sat in a hall listening to The Rite of Spring, Merzbow,The Maggini Quartet, Gillian Weir playing Messiaen it's the SOUND that is primary not Genre, not tradition, not harmony, not narrative but the sound the music makes and how that affects me and how that affects other people in other ways.

My understanding is that you do encourage people to listen to different forms of music, music from different cultures, in the way you understand the cultures that produce those musics make and listen to music, which is not quite the same emphasis you are making presumably for the sake of this particular discussion.

[french frank]

I'm not totally convinced that you think it 'matters' whether they develop an interest in such music

Indeed , i'm not sure that it does "matter" , the music will survive without them.

Well, the title of the thread is "Ignorance of classical music - does it matter?"

It would be more economical to say, 'No', and leave it at that

[MrGongGong]

It would
but that wasn't what I said

does it matter ?

for them ?
for music ?
for the rest of the universe ?

[Flosshilde]

It would
but that wasn't what I said

does it matter ?

for them ?
for music ?
for the rest of the universe ?

I've been wondering that, too. Who did the OP have in mind when he asked if it 'mattered' if people are ignorant? The people who are 'ignorant'? Or those of us who aren't? Or society in general? Should everybody be knowledgable about everything? How knowledgable is the OP about football - could he explain the off-side rule? Did he know that there is such a thing? How about Renaissance art - could he identify the three Bellinis? If he was shown a painting by one of them could he name it & identify the artist?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Who did the OP have in mind when he asked if it 'mattered' if people are ignorant?

Does this matter?

[MrGongGong]

There is often a sub-plot to these kinds of questions
"we've all gone to the dogs, we need to get back to the 1950's when every schoolboy could name all of Bach's cantata's" etc etc

mr p where are you when we need you ?

[french frank]

There is often a sub-plot to these kinds of questions
"we've all gone to the dogs, we need to get back to the 1950's when every schoolboy could name all of Bach's cantata's" etc etc

You're very good at inventing things that people obviously aren't saying in order to devalue what they are saying, MrGG. I'm sure there's a name for that in classical rhetoric!

Meanwhile:

all the young people I meet are very familiar with the soundworld of "classical music" , more or less any trip to the cinema will expose you to the sounds of Mahler even if its not composed by him

Wasn't the OP referring to - your favourite word - the context? I can understand that there are people who look at a painting and perceive it as an object (a visionworld). They look at it and move on, not curious to know anything more about it, how it relates to other paintings, other artists, other ages. You don't have to know anything - it's just what you see and move on. You don't have to be interested in art.

But look at some of the Wikipedia articles on rock/pop musicians: Lady Gaga has an article which competes with those of Bach, Beethoven and Mozart in length. That's because that sort of context isn't irrelevant. People are interested in it. The 'sub-plot' behind the question isn't what you say: it's 'Does it matter if young people are not exposed to the classical musical canon [sic ] at all as part of their education? And you are absolutely free to say, No.

What, by the way, is 'the soundworld of classical music' (with or without its double quotes)? Something that 'sounds like Mahler' but isn't by him?

[heliocentric]

Anecdotes aside, is there actually any evidence that "ignorance of classical music" is any greater than it was say 50 years ago?

"Classical" music is one of many musics I'm interested in. I have the impression that ignorance of free improvisation, for example, is far more widespread in our society than ignorance of (Western) classical music. Yet that music goes on, and goes on evolving.

[teamsaint]

Anecdotes aside, is there actually any evidence that "ignorance of classical music" is any greater than it was say 50 years ago?

"Classical" music is one of many musics I'm interested in. I have the impression that ignorance of free improvisation, for example, is far more widespread in our society than ignorance of (Western) classical music. Yet that music goes on, and goes on evolving.

I happen to think that ignorance of Classical music, (if couched in quiz question terms)is probably little different today to 50 years ago.

What is a shame that the 3 day a week , leisure society that we were promised in the 70's, was never allowed to happen, since that would have risked having a population with time to think for itself, with the result that people who might be interested in Free Improvisation, or whatever, don't have the time to.
Golly what a long sentence. Kind of free improvised.
I am off to research free Improvisation now !

[Paul Sherratt]

heliocentric, most people I meet don't recognise Willie Nelson's name. Crazy or what ?

[teamsaint]

heliocentric, most people I meet don't recognise Willie Nelson's name. Crazy or what ?

Ironically,(!!) one might say the same of namesake Bill Nelson.

I need to replace my old Patsy Cline tape with a CD. That one really did wear out. What a singer.