Ignorance of classical music - does it matter?

[hmvman]

Just seen this blog by Michael White on the Torygraph site http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture...t-from-brahms/

It's not just young students on University Challenge though. There's a similar ignorance of classical music by more mature contestants on R4's Brain of Britain. I heard an edition where all four contestants, who had successfully answered questions on history, science, mathematics etc., failed to identify Elgar's Salut D'Amour.

I suppose the question is does this ignorance of classical music matter? Is it now just a cultural backwater deserving little attention by the educational establishment?

I feel so fortunate that the headmaster (as they were called then) at my primary school played pieces of classical music to us at morning assembly and that a basic understanding of classical music was taught in my first couple of years of secondary school (a secondary modern not a grammar school).

[vinteuil]

. There's a similar ignorance of classical music by more mature contestants on R4's Brain of Britain. I heard an edition where all four contestants, who had successfully answered questions on history, science, mathematics etc., failed to identify Elgar's Salut D'Amour.

... I could well be unable to identify some piece of Elgar. But I'd be pretty good on Froberger, Schütz, or Buxtehude...

[Ferretfancy]

I do think that ignorance of classical music matters, if only because so much profound pleasure is lost. Of course, we all have our own areas of ignorance, in my case it's jazz, although I have good friends who are educating me gently!
Surely part of the problem is that the huge commercialisation of pop music and all the accompanying fashions and fads, drives other musical forms away. People are simply not exposed to classical music when young, and the whole genre has been hived off as a specialist interest said to demand great effort to enjoy.

I grew up in a family where there was no interest in classical music, but it was there on the radio and there were fewer distractions from other sources. That doesn't seem to be the case now.

Mind you, under quiz conditions howlers are common, the other day on a radio brain teaser I managed to wrongly identify as Carmen an extract from Massenet's Le Cid, and that was in the absense of a critical audience and television cameras.

[salymap]

Eggheads resident team are the best of similar programmes to identify classical music, as far as I can see. But even the annoyingly brainy 'Daphne', leaves me standing on popgroups and the latest hits,where I don'thave an idea. They, of course, are older than the contestants already mentioned.

[MrGongGong]

People are simply not exposed to classical music when young, and the whole genre has been hived off as a specialist interest said to demand great effort to enjoy.
.

I think it's important not to confuse knowing with articulating
all the young people I meet are very familiar with the soundworld of "classical music" , more or less any trip to the cinema will expose you to the sounds of Mahler even if its not composed by him.

Knowing the name of something is not always a sign of knowing much about it (though sometimes it obviously is !)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It isn't just young people who lack awareness of classical music. The present situation has been staring us in the face for decades.

[Mary Chambers]

It does matter. Music enriches life just as literature and art do, and the basics of all those should be taught at school.

I think the University Challenge teams often know considerably more than most people of their age group do. Most people in their teens/early twenties know absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell, unless they've been to a school that teaches about it or come from an interested family.

I'm sure, though, that there are many pieces of classical music I couldn't identify accurately, and I've been steeped in it from childhood. It's a VERY big subject. (I can do the University Challenge questions!)

[MrGongGong]

unless they've been to a school that teaches about it or come from an interested family.

Everyone who has done GCSE music will have been taught about Classical Music, though whether they have been taught well, enthusiastically or competently is another thing all together

[Ferretfancy]

Quite a long time ago now I went with a group to see a performance of Miss Saigon. The main attraction of the show was the very clever staging, which included the arrival of a helicopter in the second act. The show is of course a version of Madam Butterfly, but the music is inexpressibly tedious and certainly does not stick in the mind. As it happened Madam Butterfly was on at ENO just down the road, and I pointed out to one of my friends that Puccini had much better tunes. " Ah yes!" she said " But that's opera you see"

[Mary Chambers]

Quite a long time ago now I went with a group to see a performance of Miss Saigon. The main attraction of the show was the very clever staging, which included the arrival of a helicopter in the second act. The show is of course a version of Madam Butterfly, but the music is inexpressibly tedious and certainly does not stick in the mind. As it happened Madam Butterfly was on at ENO just down the road, and I pointed out to one of my friends that Puccini had much better tunes. " Ah yes!" she said " But that's opera you see"

Did that mean that of course opera had better tunes, or that opera was something one couldn't possibly go to?

[teamsaint]

It might be useful if we could use some of the 12 years of compulsory schooling and the governments "life long learning" process, to show people that a journey of learning about music, ( and passing that learning on to others) can be a wonderful rewarding and enjoyable part of life.
Its not just what you know, its what you are discovering.

[LeMartinPecheur]

It does matter. Music enriches life just as literature and art do, and the basics of all those should be taught at school.

Surely all that can be done is to show the door - the entry point - to classical music. Whether people go through it is a matter for them.

What we are dealing with is surely a 'matter of taste' and the old proverb that there's no arguing about it is surely very relevant. 'You can lead a horse to water' etc etc.

It's my personal belief that classical music appeals most strongly to Jungian Intuitive personality-types who make up about 25% of the population. If so, it's always likely to be a minority interest But still a large minority interest!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It might be useful if we could use some of the 12 years of compulsory schooling and the governments "life long learning" process, to show people that a journey of learning about music, ( and passing that learning on to others) can be a wonderful rewarding and enjoyable part of life.

Many of us do.

Ignorance matters: I am looking forward to Stephanie Flanders' programme on Hayek next week - a tremendously important figure in the history of economics (and, therefore, a tremendous influence in the quality of people's lives) of whose work and ideas I have been in ignorance all my life. Learning is a lifelong battle against ignorance; the role of the BBC in this battle is considerable. That's why I lament the paucity of decent, serious programmes on Music - discussing it, performing it, encouraging people's involvement in it - from the BBC. Not just Music from the Classical traditions, but those of Jazz, and World Musics: I hope I'm wrong, but I'd guess that University Challenge contestents would be even more at sea identifying Ornette Coleman or Ghanaian drumming than they are knowing the difference between Mozart and Shostakovich.

[MrGongGong]

contestents would be even more at sea identifying Ornette Coleman or Ghanaian drumming than they are knowing the difference between Mozart and Shostakovich.

Indeed
a good point
Music , even though it is the "soundtrack to our lives" is pretty peripheral to most people
I do think that the difference between knowing and naming (articulating ) is important
most pop music listeners would struggle to name Robert Fripp as a musician
but would instantly recognise his sound
the same is also true for "classical" music

[antongould]

It might be useful if we could use some of the 12 years of compulsory schooling and the governments "life long learning" process, to show people that a journey of learning about music, ( and passing that learning on to others) can be a wonderful rewarding and enjoyable part of life.
Its not just what you know, its what you are discovering.

Icouldn't agree more ts....