How long is Mozart's "Prague"?

[LeMartinPecheur]

I'm reading H.C. Robbins Landon's Mozart - The Golden Years with great enjoyment and came across this on the Prague symphony (p.184): "This work has no minuet, but if performed uncut (i.e. with all its repeats) its three movements still last nearly forty minutes (my emphasis)."

I immediately rushed to check timings on my SCO/Mackerras recording: 17'44" + 11'18" + 7'45" = something around 37 minutes. Is HCRL's 'nearly forty minutes' this loose, or does Mackerras still not play 'all its repeats'? (I don't have a score unfortunately.)

In his EMI cycle I observe that Jeffrey Tate takes more than three minutes more in the Andante, so is it just Mackerras's faster tempo here that stops him getting much closer to 40 mins?

What's the longest performance known to boarders??

[Roehre]

I'm reading H.C. Robbins Landon's Mozart - The Golden Years with great enjoyment and came across this on the Prague symphony (p.184): "This work has no minuet, but if performed uncut (i.e. with all its repeats) its three movements still last nearly forty minutes (my emphasis)."

The Prague is arguably the greatest of the Mozart symphonies (and not the Jupiter, which comes close of course).
It is also the longest symphony before Beethoven's 2nd (which it influenced), despite its only three movements.
I recall a performance by Krips and the Concertgebouw lasting 39 minutes, taking all the repeats. Unfortunately he didn't for the Philips recording just made a couple of days later, but I always have got the strong impression this was because it meant that an extra LP had to be added to the planned set of eight (now with 32/KV318 and 34/KV338 at the "B-side").

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Probably my favourite of the Mozza Symphonies (although I change my mind every time I listen to 39, 40 & 41).

A quick check on Amazon reveals a wide range of timings for the work - Menuhin takes least time (23.5 mins) and Harnoncourt the most (38 mins). Mackerras with the Prague Chamber Orchestra takes 34.5 minutes, so in Scotland he either does the Development&Recap repeats (which he omits in the central movement in Prague) or takes a steadier tempo.

Most "big band" Pragues take between 25-30 mins; the recording by Bernstein & the VPO (who observe all Expo repeats, but adds the second-half repeats only in the Finale) takes 31.5 mins. Abbado takes 37 mins - the same length as Norrington.

Robbins Landon's "nearly 40 mins" is pretty close - I don't think there were many recorded performances which included all the repeats available to him when he wrote that excellent book.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Does anyone have the foggiest clue why WAM didn't include a minuet and trio? Could it have been simply because he knew audiences would have had quite enough after three big movements and he might lose them out the doors if he put one in?

Though I guess this assumes the work was played as we would, continuously, when there's plenty of evidence of contemporary concerts starting with just the first 3 mov'ts of a 4-mov't symphony with the last mov't played at the very end of the concert, framing miscellaneous vocal and concertante works or even instrumental solos.

[salymap]

Breitkopf says 27 mins, no minuet.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Breitkopf says 27 mins, no minuet.

Breitkopf clearly Haertelled through it then

[salymap]

Breikopf clearly Haertelled through it then

[LeMartinPecheur]

Does anyone have the foggiest clue why WAM didn't include a minuet and trio?

Trying to answer my own question I realised I had Neil Zaslaw's Mozart's Symphonies sitting on the shelf!

He points out that our expectation of 4 mov'ts in a symphony is largely created by the fact that we hear regularly these days in the concert hall only a small sample of classical symphonies and "Mozart's last six, Haydn's twelve London symphonies and all the symphonies of Beethoven and Schubert are, except for K504, in four [movements]." But "thousands of of C18 symphonies (including many of Mozart's) are in three movements".

He doesn't seem to address specifically the issue of why, when WAM's last 3-mov't symphony was the Salzburg No. 34 of 1780, the Prague should suddenly revert, though he does demonstrate that some contemorary commentators thought that the inclusion of a minuet - as dance music in an otherwise abstract work - was an aesthetic abomination.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Breitkopf clearly Haertelled through it then

I see that Beecham in a 1940 LPO recording managed it a better gallop, about 25 mins (10'22 + 10'02 + 4'03). So quite a range then: "Does Sir desire the long or the short fitting for his Prague?"