In Tune tonight had a piece called The Cake-walk by Debussy. Whaterver happened to those cheeky and delightful characters we used to collect out of Robertson's jam? I think it's possible to take PC stuff too far.
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Yes, it should be given its proper name, Le Petit Nègre. That's yer actual French! -
Stunned by the initial post - a "golliwog" is a visual representation which exaggerates the physical characteristics of a specific ethnic group, for the supposed entertainment of people not a part of that group. Of course it's offensive, as The Black and White Minstrels were offensive.
I had a golliwog badge from Robertson when I was a child, I was very fond of it in complete ignorance of its meaning, it was like a teddy bear.
I enjoyed some of the songs on the B/W minstrel show but didn't have a clue at the age of 8 or 9 where the images came from or what they might imply.
Don't confuse "pc" with the suppression of offensive images. Can you watch Breakfast at Tiffany's without extreme discomfort at the characterisation of Mr. Yunioshi? I remember my shock at returning to the film after many years, hoping to enjoy the style, the story, the cat - especially the cat - again. The racist stereotype ruined it.
Yes, all these things are a part of cultural history, but that doesn't confer any lasting meaning or quality upon them - or if it does, that meaning can be turned upside down by experience. If an ethnic group now affectionately call themselves or each other "wogs" in creative revenge, that doesn't make it alright for an outsider to call them that. Words are powerful instruments of oppression, as well as self-definition.Comment
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Is that what it's called in the manuscript? Msg 2Comment
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To be honest I don't know - I just found several references to the piece under that name on Google.Comment
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I went looking, and the sources I found appeared to be in English, even if the text was in French! A cakewalk seems to have been a particular form of dance carried out by American slaves. Like it or not, this suggests that the title was given by Debussy.Comment
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Le Petit Nègre is a stand-alone piece by Debussy and is of only modest technical demands. Golliwogg's Cake-walk (Debussy's spelling) is the last piece of the suite, Children's Corner, and is more taxing. I recall that I commented some years ago on the original version of these boards that I had heard the ridiculous title The Cakewalk used on the old 15 minute children's programme at around 4pm on R3.Originally posted by Vile Consort View Post
As Dave 2002 has said, it's the title Debussy gave the piece. Do we have any right to change it? I don't suppose any editions of the music have been interfered with. We must accept that Debussy lived in a different age.Comment
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It is reminiscent of the Russians painting people out of official photographs to try to change history retrospectively!Originally posted by VodkaDilc View PostComment
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nonsenseOriginally posted by Dave2002 View Post
It's quite easy NOT to be offensive
you just don't say or write things that give offence
simple reallyComment
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Agreed. But Debussy was not intending to give offence. Should we change the titles of his pieces?Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostComment
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Many works have their names changed and the names of the artists changed so as not to offendOriginally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
conflating this with Stalinist censorship is IMV a misreading
for example , i'm quite interested in transgressive musics , I don't expect that this band (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Xog...eature=related) would even get their name mentioned on the radio let alone any of their songs
(yes , it is really dreadful stuff but part of the wide world of music 
)
Should we change all the Grape Lanes back ?
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Totally agree jlw. If you can persuade people with Caribbean heritage to talk about the impact of slavery on their lives today, it's a salutary experience.Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
The Mickey Rooney performance is a real cringe-maker
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Why don't you get some off ebay, pin them on your anorak & go for a stroll though Brixton or visit Notting Hill Carnival & tell the nice nurse in the hospital all about it?Originally posted by Dave2002 View PostComment
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I was not intending to give offence. I just find that revising texts may change "history" as we know it. At the time Debussy's piece was written possibly not everyone was aware of all the connotations, though the fact that the title includes the term "cakewalk" may suggest that some at least had more awareness. Blanking out history does not seem to me an altogether respectable way to do things, and there have been many situations where history and "facts" have been rewritten later. It is said that this is usually by the victors.Comment
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