What is a symphony?

[french frank]

I think French Frank is a Wittgensteinian :

Bof! I had an altogether homelier example in mind.

If 6-year-old Nigel insists on referring to his white van Dinky toy as 'a tractor' this has a restricted usefulness, as in when daddy asks mummy, 'Have you seen Nigel's tractor?' They both know exactly what is meant. It could also in context be shortened to, 'Have you seen the tractor anywhere?'

But there is no sense in which the white van Dinky toy is a tractor, or even a toy tractor, because there is a generally understood meaning for the word 'tractor' which relates particularly to its function as an agricultural vehicle.

The key point is that the word 'tractor' does have a commonly understood meaning.

So is there a strong enough general understanding of what a 'symphony' is? - and I think this is what Dave was asking in the OP.

I would say that the general understanding would be strong enough for the naming of a 3-minute trumpet solo 'Symphony for solo trumpet' to be a conceit or fancy which we are invited to accept because it has gained that meaning in the mind of the composer. But in the real world it isn't symphony; it is a piece that is called a symphony.

None of which really helps greatly with establishing what are the essentials of a symphony and what the variables.


Oh, well ... back to work ...

[edashtav]

With dry-drivel like this, is it any wonder that we we can't attract a young(er) audience?

ahinton may be dry (like a fine wine? ) but he doesn't write drivel, Beef Oven. He seems to be ferociously well-informed and full of the opposite of drivel: sense.

and ... is it a prime aim of this forum to attract a young(er) audience ?

[Beef Oven]

ahinton may be dry (like a fine wine? ) but he doesn't write drivel, Beef Oven. He seems to be ferociously well-informed and full of the opposite of drivel: sense.

and ... is it a prime aim of this forum to attract a young(er) audience ?

I wasn't thinking that ahinton writes drivel - I meant the whole context, and the way we (the classical music fraternity) mystify everything, making any kind of tentative entry into our world of music so damn difficult for a newbie.

Nobody suggests this forum's prime aim is to attract a younger audience - if you'd been paying attention, you would have understood that is is a cross-reference to another thread.

[ahinton]

With dry-drivel like this, is it any wonder that we we can't attract a young(er) audience?

I was unaware - and the initial thrust of the thread hardly confirms - that anyone is trying to attract a young or younger (than what? - springtime?) audience to contribute to this thread their ideas about what may or may not consitutie a symphony, nor, for that matter, do you make it clear which of the works concerned - Brahms's, Elgar's , Stevenson's, Busoni's, Bush's, Korngold's, Schönberg's Vierne's, Widor's, Tournemire's, Karg-Elert's, Sorabji's, Payne's or Matthews's constitute drivel of any kind, their perceived moistness or otherwise notwithstanding.

[Beef Oven]

Rather a wet response, BeefO.

By the way, have you seen Dave's post # 1591 about Sinopoli on the "Bargains" Thread? I think it's a question you'd have fun answering.

see my post #32 for an understanding of my point. I'm off to check out that Sinopoli post

[ahinton]

I wasn't thinking that ahinton writes drivel - I meant the whole context, and the way we (the classical music fraternity) mystify everything, making any kind of tentative entry into our world of music so damn difficult for a newbie.

But do we? Or do even some of us? A few might, I suppose, but such an attitude of mind would be anathema to lunatics like me who actually write the stuff without audiences of all ages for which such activity would be an utter waste of time.

[Dave2002]

Rather a wet response, BeefO.

By the way, have you seen Dave's post # 1591 about Sinopoli on the "Bargains" Thread? I think it's a question you'd have fun answering.

Talking of wetness I thought someone might have mentioned ducks by now!

[Beef Oven]

But do we? Or do even some of us? A few might, I suppose, but such an attitude of mind would be anathema to lunatics like me who actually write the stuff without audiences of all ages for which such activity would be an utter waste of time.

Some of us do.

[EdgeleyRob]

If the composer calls a piece of music a symphony that's good enough for me.

We depend fully on what the composer says it is.

Roehre,what a great post (#19).

[Beef Oven]

If the composer calls a piece of music a symphony that's good enough for me.

".....this is a song about Fat Larry and his car...."

.

[vinteuil]

in the real world

... ah, the "real world".

I have indeed heard tell of that wondrous place...

[Pabmusic]

... ah, the "real world".

I have indeed heard tell of that wondrous place...

So have I, but I don't believe it's true.

[french frank]

... ah, the "real world".

I have indeed heard tell of that wondrous place...

In this context it simply meant the world experienced outside the mind of the composer, where all is transitory and uncertain, as the poet had it.

[french frank]

Eureka!

"The Olympics closing ceremony will be "the best after-show party of all time," says its artistic director.

Kim Gavin said the ceremony, which will focus on 50 years of British music, would be a "mashed-up symphony".

[...]

Called the Symphony of British Music, it will showcase "British creativity in the arts" and take people on a musical journey from Elgar to Waterloo Sunset in 30 tracks, Mr Gavin said. "

The key to the enigma.

[MrGongGong]

The key to the enigma.

Sounds like a "crock o'shite" to me

and it's hardly a long journey in musical terms is it