Extremely annoying pieces of classical music

[Parry1912]

Thank you for the explanation.

[Flosshilde]

jayne lee wilson,
I remember being amused at a live performance of Kullervo many years ago, at the point where a maiden invites the hero to enter her sleigh. The translation was on the lines of " Join me within, and we can crack our nuts together! " Now there's a nice bit of honest vulgarity for you !

Only if the 'maiden' was not what she was purporting to be

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I cannot stand Mozart's Jupiter - despite it being IMO brilliant music and knowing the piece inside out. So be it.

That's interesting. I've often considered this to be the weakest of the last 5 symphonies. True, the finale is brilliantly clever, but the 2nd movement seems quite formless and the 1st movement is full of cliches. I know I'm in a minority here; though I do admire the work, I prefer 36-40.

[Roehre]

That's interesting. I've often considered this to be the weakest of the last 5 symphonies. True, the finale is brilliantly clever, but the 2nd movement seems quite formless and the 1st movement is full of cliches. I know I'm in a minority here; though I do admire the work, I prefer 36-40.

For me 38 is by far the most important and impressive Mozart symphony (perhaps because it has got only 3 mvts )

[Nick Armstrong]

That's interesting. I've often considered this to be the weakest of the last 5 symphonies. True, the finale is brilliantly clever, but the 2nd movement seems quite formless and the 1st movement is full of cliches. I know I'm in a minority here; though I do admire the work, I prefer 36-40.

I've often wondered why I can't love the symphonies like I love the piano concertos i.e. hugely. The nearest I get is the finale of No. 41...

[cloughie]

They are all great, wonderfully listenable to at any time whether done for full on (Karajan, Klemperer et al) or for smaller forces EC Pinnock, LCP Norrington

In order of preference 39, 41, 38, 36, 40. That's only marginal for the first four but maybe 40 a liitle way behind thanks to Waldo de Los Rios.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I, too, prefer Symphonies 38-40, but Mozza's achievement in K551 is remarkable. The "weight" of the Symphonic argument is shifted from the First Movement to the last - I'm tempted to say for the first time in history, but Haydn probably did something similar (he always does!) and Mozza's earlier C major Symphony K338 shows a "first glance" of what he does in the Jupiter. The Music leads to the magnificent Finale, rather than the Finale being a brisk conclusion to events set up - and largely resolved - in the first Movement.

The use of banal material for the opening of K551 (cliched fanfare figures using only the primary triads) is a deliberate "simplification" of the thematic and harmonic language in order to contrast with the wider chromatic range of the Second group of the Exposition (where the orchestration is the composer at his finest) and which itself "prepares" for the surprise lurch to the C minor chord at bar 81 (and the Harmonic progression of bars 81-88 are recapitulated in the Finale, bars 128-134). And the Development starting "in" Eb Major (emphasized by the same I-V oscillations that emphasized the Tonic in bars 1-9), bringing out the importance of the c minor-ness (apologies!) of this C Major work.

As for the "seeming formless"-ness of the Second Movement, I hesitate (but only very briefly) to suggest that such an impression isn't apparent in performances that follow Mozza's Tempo indication (which brings out the "guess where the bar begins" play of the Movement's rhythm & metre, and which clarifies the distinction between thematic and accompanimental materials) and which use Mozza's instruments (which clarify the melodies and thence the outlines of the "Sonata Form" of the Movement. As does the Exposition repeat, which can only "work" if the chosen Tempo follows the composer's markings.)

Sorry for the Essay, but to lump one of humanity's most incisive masterpieces with "extremely annoying pieces" merits some protest, I felt.

Best Wishes.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A most interesting set of thoughts, ferneyh. I shall listen again with your observations in mind.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

[Roehre]

A most interesting set of thoughts, ferneyh. I shall listen again with your observations in mind.

Seconded

[Pabmusic]

A most interesting set of thoughts, ferneyh. I shall listen again with your observations in mind.

Quite agree. Whatever one feels about the Jupiter, it could never (surely!) be classed as "extremely annoying".

[jayne lee wilson]

Remarkably detailed insights, fhg - I'm suitably daunted (and newly enlightened)...

I, too, prefer Symphonies 38-40, but Mozza's achievement in K551 is remarkable. The "weight" of the Symphonic argument is shifted from the First Movement to the last - I'm tempted to say for the first time in history, but Haydn probably did something similar (he always does!) and Mozza's earlier C major Symphony K338 shows a "first glance" of what he does in the Jupiter. The Music leads to the magnificent Finale, rather than the Finale being a brisk conclusion to events set up - and largely resolved - in the first Movement.

The use of banal material for the opening of K551 (cliched fanfare figures using only the primary triads) is a deliberate "simplification" of the thematic and harmonic language in order to contrast with the wider chromatic range of the Second group of the Exposition (where the orchestration is the composer at his finest) and which itself "prepares" for the surprise lurch to the C minor chord at bar 81 (and the Harmonic progression of bars 81-88 are recapitulated in the Finale, bars 128-134). And the Development starting "in" Eb Major (emphasized by the same I-V oscillations that emphasized the Tonic in bars 1-9), bringing out the importance of the c minor-ness (apologies!) of this C Major work.

As for the "seeming formless"-ness of the Second Movement, I hesitate (but only very briefly) to suggest that such an impression isn't apparent in performances that follow Mozza's Tempo indication (which brings out the "guess where the bar begins" play of the Movement's rhythm & metre, and which clarifies the distinction between thematic and accompanimental materials) and which use Mozza's instruments (which clarify the melodies and thence the outlines of the "Sonata Form" of the Movement. As does the Exposition repeat, which can only "work" if the chosen Tempo follows the composer's markings.)

Sorry for the Essay, but to lump one of humanity's most incisive masterpieces with "extremely annoying pieces" merits some protest, I felt.

Best Wishes.

[Stanfordian]

OK festivities over, Christmas tree fairies are back in the cupboard... How about a few "bêtes noires"? I've just been listening to the French "Tribune des Critiques" programme about The Nutcracker, and I realise that my list of REALLY annoying pieces has three items vying for top spot:

1= Tchaikovsky "Nutcracker" - Pas de Deux.. That ruddy downward scale repeated ad nauseam, louder and louder (ffff by the end )

1= Tchaikovsky "Tatiana's Letter" scene, Eugene Onegin (have avoided it sufficiently long to forget what it sounds like)

1= Liszt "Les Préludes"

Anyone else got any bugbear pieces? (I expect "Bolero" to feature strongly - though I rather like it, in the right hands)

Happy New Year all

I will noninate the ‘Toy Symphony’ by Michael Haydn makes me cringe. Truly awful.

[Parry1912]

the ‘Toy Symphony’ by Michael Haydn makes me cringe. Truly awful.

[cloughie]

Kullervo - will it never end ?

I know this goes totally against my FW preferences, I prefer Kullervo without the vocal movements!