"Happy clappers" counterblast: J. Duchen on "how to be a nice audience"

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Recently I played in the band for a school show. Before the concert, during the interval and after the concert, they played a professional recording of the same show. Not only do the ears never get a rest - it does, as you say, show up the live performers.

[Serial_Apologist]

Recently I played in the band for a school show. Before the concert, during the interval and after the concert, they played a professional recording of the same show. Not only do the ears never get a rest - it does, as you say, show up the live performers.

Appallingly bad manners, and thoroughly unkind, imv.

[cloughie]

Recently I played in the band for a school show. Before the concert, during the interval and after the concert, they played a professional recording of the same show. Not only do the ears never get a rest - it does, as you say, show up the live performers.

You cannot be serious - why on earth would they do that?

[cloughie]

Some people just cannot stand silence. At the Olympics they play loud background music when nothing else is happening, just as they do in 20-20 cricket. At the Proms, when the music stops for a momentary pause, some people feel they have to fill it up with noise. Mendelssohn tried to overcome this by linking his movements. Conductors do the same by rushing into the next movement, which is a pity, as it removes that precious moment of silence.

What I think is worse is when they do it whilst the audience is still clapping eg Thomas Dasgaard at the beginning of the finale of Tchaikovsky Pathetique. Yes the crowd were wrong but why compound it!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What I think is worse is when they do it whilst the audience is still clapping eg Thomas Dasgaard at the beginning of the finale of Tchaikovsky Pathetique. Yes the crowd were wrong but why compound it!

This is a difficult one. As you say, it does compound the problem. But until Roger Wright agrees to put a request into the Proms programmes that audiences might restrain their applause until the end of the work, it's left to the conductors to make the point in the only way available to them. I think I would do the same.

[Bryn]

But until Roger Wright agrees to put a request into the Proms programmes that audiences might restrain their applause until the end of the work, ...

Which, hopefully, will be never! How insulting to assume that Tchaikovsky did not expect just such an outbreak of approbation at that very point.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Which, hopefully, will be never! How insulting to assume that Tchaikovsky did not expect just such an outbreak of approbation at that very point.

I'm quite sure your wish will be granted - sadly.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm quite sure your wish will be granted - sadly.

Chris Small has gone as far as to suggest that Tchaikovsky was in fact quite happy in his life at the time of composing the "Pathetique"; I think it would be difficult to say what expectations he would have had of his audience.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Chris Small has gone as far as to suggest that Tchaikovsky was in fact quite happy in his life at the time of composing the "Pathetique";

He wasn't so happy after the first perfomance, though we do not know the reasons. We only speculate.

I think it would be difficult to say what expectations he would have had of his audience.

Indeed. And again, we only speculate. Perhaps basing our assumptions on our own preferences is a form of arrogance.

[cloughie]

He wasn't so happy after the first perfomance, though we do not know the reasons. We only speculate.
Indeed. And again, we only speculate. Perhaps basing our assumptions on our own preferences is a form of arrogance.

We can only speculate on his view of his symphonies being interrupted by applause, unlss that is some learned schaolar on these boards can give us chapter and verse from their researches. If I'd had the talent to compose those masterpieces I'd be pretty p...d off by the interruption!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

He may well have "expected it", but that does not suggest that in any way he liked it.

[vinteuil]

He may well have "expected it", but that does not suggest that in any way he liked it.

... whereas Alpie knows what we should do

[french frank]

Which, hopefully, will be never! How insulting to assume that Tchaikovsky did not expect just such an outbreak of approbation at that very point.

Well, it could OTOH be insulting to assume that he did expect it.

This must be a bit of a problem for those who can't abide stick-in-the-mud tradition. Where do you run when the applause becomes a tradition?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Where do you run when the applause becomes a tradition?

Maybe you stay at home and listen to studio-made CDs. That would be a pity, and not great for the employment prospects of classical musicians.

[JohnSkelton]

Well, it could OTOH be insulting to assume that he did expect it.

This must be a bit of a problem for those who can't abide stick-in-the-mud tradition. Where do you run when the applause becomes a tradition?

A practice of not applauding during performances (with the exception of certain styles of opera) gradually developed following a practice of applauding during performances of music (not necessarily when there was a break in terms of a symphonic movement etc.). It's probably correct to say the development runs parallel to certain developments in classical music (the basic reference in the concert hall still seems to be later C19 early C20) and in the social arrangements surrounding the performance of that music. Perhaps one problem has to do with practice becoming tradition - perhaps what will happen (assuming everyone doesn't give up through a mixture of infuriation at other people and mind-numbed boredom) is that other kinds of practice will in turn develop that at least feel more 'natural' to more people.

Purely personally I wouldn't put inter-movement applause as all that much of an irritant though I wouldn't do it myself, and I can easily block out someone briefly whispering to someone during a performance, etc. I find more difficult people getting terribly annoyed about applause / disruption and making a point of it by shushing. I agree there's something a bit formulaic about some of the inter-movement applause - just another place where people think they ought to clap. But if it's spontaneous excitement / enthusiasm I find it easy enough to switch back on again (though appreciate others feel differently). Perhaps the worst thing for classical music enthusiasts would be if everyone other than the diehards, the connoisseurs, the people who know their Klemperer from their Karajan and can give you the date of each of their recordings of the Eroica stop going to classical concerts.