Delius on BBC4

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  • Lateralthinking1

    #46
    Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
    I would say a highly sensitised openness to the environment: in Paris the fin de siecle ethos of unrestrained flambuoyance and Delius's hedonistic overindulgence in it in reaction against stifling late Victorian puritanicism; in the countryside, only superficially in sharp contrast, a capacity to identify selfhood with a natural rather than man-made order, thus with natural phenomena and change, and a corresponding intuition that, in the light of eternity, narratives delimit and can never capture, which was expressed in the music at its most characteristic.
    Delius was a hippy. Yes, S_A, I do mainly agree with your full summary but I note too that you don't link the hedonism directly with the music. The piece that was played with the Parisian dancing girls did not sound particularly ooh la la to me.

    What there was in it was the sound of night traffic etc which I thought particularly fascinating given that VW's A London Symphony - arguably my favourite piece of classical music - came afterwards. The latter, even with similar movement, and Big Ben manages to sound bucolic and I feel now that the same to a lesser extent was true of that period of Delius. There was a mixture of things going on there perhaps but the later pieces arguably seem more passionate in the broad sense of that word.

    I think too that he was taking in tremendous amounts of colour in all ways which is heard almost overwhelmingly in the music. Who am I to know any more than anybody else living today. We heard a wide range of interpretation. However, I feel that he was carrying some sort of burden in that process rather than simply indulging and being blase. Part of it was meeting a standard as per upbringing. Another was in the formulation - turning all the materials into musical structure.

    As for Pink Floyd, the excesses would not have been the problem for him so much as their increasing emphasis on technical ability and dexterity to the detriment of subtlety, nuance and any identifiable positive emotion. Leonard Cohen has never been depressing, whatever is said, but, god, they were. The post Barrett stuff - I can't listen to them.

    Caliban - I'm not sure what the date of that clip was but I wonder if Beecham was doing a Churchill.

    (I am in no way criticising Beecham for his achievements by the way)
    Last edited by Guest; 26-05-12, 12:27.

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    • aeolium
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 3992

      #47
      He did also concentrate on music that in some ways many might find a little superficial.
      Oh, I don't know - Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, Berlioz... He conducted a lot of new music as well, first performances of Stravinsky, Richard Strauss, the Busoni piano concerto etc. I think an indication of his genius was his ability to assemble a new orchestra from scratch and to train it to such a pitch that it was able to play under the direction of Beecham the then new and difficult music of Stravinsky including a performance in Berlin of Petrushka at two days' notice and without rehearsal. Stravinsky was extremely impressed with that scratch orchestra, the Beecham Symphony.

      Caliban, yes, he may well have been a bit of a nutter (his mother was committed to a mental asylum) but he was a damned musical nutter!

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      • Simon Biazeck

        #48
        Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
        But the celebs were musicians of note. I thought it worked well.
        I agree completely, and it's the eminence of those listeners that is crucial. It's great to see the personal reactions and feel as you are sharing it with them. Also, David Owen Norris did another star turn at the piano. He excelled himself on Parry's Jerusalem in the recent The Prince and the Composer. I love Bridcut's work - real documentaries, serious and entertaining.

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        • Suffolkcoastal
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 3290

          #49
          I thought as usual with John Birdcut, that this was a thoughtful and interesting documentary. It hasn't altered my opinion of Delius's music, which I can take or leave, depending on my mood, but I certainly agree that he was a 'one-off' and a fascinating character. I personally cannot abide Beecham and avoid anything conducted by him as much as possible, though with Delius until recent years this hasn't always been easy, so inevitably I have some of his Delius recordings but only in LP format. I'm glad I watched the programme though and must relisten to A Mass of Life again sometime.

          Comment

          • mercia
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 8920

            #50
            just come across this
            Sir Thomas Beecham recalls the life of composer Frederick Delius in an interview with Edmumd Tracey broadcast on 22 Nov 1959.Listen to Sir Thomas and other...

            the interview from which the clips were taken
            Last edited by mercia; 26-05-12, 16:16.

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            • amateur51

              #51
              I came to the programme feeling that I had tried to listen to Delius' music and had failed to appreciate it. I'd sat through a performance at ENO of 'A Village Romeo & Juliet' and found it to be interminable. Dear Chris Newman on this board exhorted me to try again so that's how I approched the Bridcut programme.

              I must say that while I was not enthused I am prepared to give Delius' music another go, as a result of the programme, most of all I think because I hadn't previously realised the Percy Grainger was a strong advocate. I thought that Bo Holten, Anthony Payne and the magnificent David Own Norris were the best participants. Beecham was fascinating in a mind-boggling sort of way

              I think it's best if I don't delve too much further into my responses to Delius' life & attitudes to women which were presumably much to do with his time but they were pretty selfish, irresponsible and pretty repellent nonetheless (presumably much to do with my time ). And his attitude to Black people needed greater teasing out too - aside from his sexual conquests and penchant for 'exotic women', did he have any Black friends?

              I'm rambling here - it was an interesting, over-long programme and I'm glad that I watched it.

              Does anyone have any recommendations about where to start with Delius' music? I see that there are several anniversary boxed sets about - any recommendations would be gratefully received as I'm going to 'give it time' as Mark Elder suggested.

              Thanks John Bridcut

              Comment

              • Mary Chambers
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1963

                #52
                Originally posted by amateur51 View Post

                I think it's best if I don't delve too much further into my responses to Delius' life & attitudes to women which were presumably much to do with his time but they were pretty selfish, irresponsible and pretty repellent nonetheless (presumably much to do with my time ).
                Couldn't agree more.

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                • HighlandDougie
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 3084

                  #53
                  Originally posted by amateur51 View Post

                  Does anyone have any recommendations about where to start with Delius' music?
                  Am

                  On the basis that I assume that you don't want to jump in with:



                  you could try the following. No doubt Delius-lite, but the performances (and the recording) are pretty good - and, "used", it almost meets the 'cheap-as-chips' benchmark:



                  or for the full-on treatment (the second disc is the "LP with the green cover" referred to in the programme by Bo Holten:



                  Great performances (dare I say preferable to Beecham).

                  Happy listening

                  HD

                  Comment

                  • amateur51

                    #54
                    Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
                    Am

                    On the basis that I assume that you don't want to jump in with:



                    you could try the following. No doubt Delius-lite, but the performances (and the recording) are pretty good - and, "used", it almost meets the 'cheap-as-chips' benchmark:



                    or for the full-on treatment (the second disc is the "LP with the green cover" referred to in the programme by Bo Holten:



                    Great performances (dare I say preferable to Beecham).

                    Happy listening

                    HD
                    Many thanks for this HD - the box is very tempting at that price but I'll follow your advice & go for the other two

                    I'll check out Delius' representation on Spotify too - here's hoping that I 'get it' this time .. or the next

                    Comment

                    • Dave2002
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 18010

                      #55
                      Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                      Many thanks for this HD - the box is very tempting at that price but I'll follow your advice & go for the other two

                      I'll check out Delius' representation on Spotify too - here's hoping that I 'get it' this time .. or the next
                      Not sure about that EMI Delius box. Maybe too much Delius!

                      There's also this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delius-150th...8113916&sr=8-2 Fewer CDs, but may be good.

                      Comment

                      • Pabmusic
                        Full Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 5537

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                        Not sure about that EMI Delius box. Maybe too much Delius!

                        There's also this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delius-150th...8113916&sr=8-2 Fewer CDs, but may be good.
                        Yes - there's plenty of Mackerras in that set.

                        Comment

                        • Pianorak
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 3127

                          #57
                          Am51 - Have just ordered the Delius Violin Sonatas from base.com at £3.79 incl. p&p and the Delius Orchestral works (2 CD set) with Barbirolli from TheHut.com at £5.95 incl. p&p (both thanks to Invisible Hand).
                          My life, each morning when I dress, is four and twenty hours less. (J Richardson)

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                          • Norfolk Born

                            #58
                            I still haven't got round to watching the BBC4 bio yet (it's safely stored on my hard disc), but I did buy the current BBC MM on the stength of the Delius CD that comes with it. The real revelation for me was 'Sea Drift', which I'd never heard before, beautifully sung by Thomas Hampson. Sadly, the other works on the disc didn't do much for me, but this Whitman setting alone made the purchase worthwhile.

                            Comment

                            • Lateralthinking1

                              #59
                              Amateur opinion moment. I would steer clear of Handley - acceptable/functional, lacking depth/passion. He doesn't really get it.

                              My feeling following the programme is (i) that it really has to be Beecham (and Fenby) if you value the history (which I do now more than previously).........and (ii) Elder for difference/subtlety BUT........are his changes to Sea Drift (back to what it was prior to Beecham) available on CD, will they be, and is the version of Sea Drift on the BBC Magazine CD that one or as I suspect something else?
                              Last edited by Guest; 29-05-12, 09:08.

                              Comment

                              • Norfolk Born

                                #60
                                The BBC MM CD 'Sea Drift' features the BBC NOW and Chorus/Bach Choir/Hampson/Hickox recorded live at the Proms on 19 July 2004.

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