Karajanophobia; is there a cure?

[Tevot]

Re # 57 and # 58 surely that performance was the pits.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am with you on this. But re. the fourth; are you referring to the late-ish EMI or the earlier DG?

Hi, visnick! I was thinking of the DG version, but the later (and earlier - there's a mono Philharmonia version, too: hope that doesn't upset your comparison, later!) EMI recordings are mightily impressive, too.

I'm now intrigued, and shall "contrast and compare" the two later today.

I wouldn't advise this! They're both such overwhelming experiences that a double exposure might prove dangerous!

However, I don't think my fav (today, at least!) fourth by Maazel will be supplanted!

Maazel was excellent with the VPO in the '60s: more "user-friendly" than Herbie, probably better suited to regular home listening - I don't know what his re-make is like. Beecham is terrific in the 4th, too: ice-cold and bone dry - the antithesis of Karajan's fiery gloom. Fantastic piece, isn't it!

[visualnickmos]

FHG,

Thanks; of HvK in this, I only have his late EMI and earlier (1961/2) DG. Double exposure? I think I can take it!
As for Maazel, I didn't know he'd done a remake; I have his VPO set, which is throughout, quite marvellous.

Beecham; yes, you can feel the ice and the freezing clear air. All this despite the (albeit good) mono sound... A terrific piece it is.

[Petrushka]

FHG Message 59: That expresses both my own ambivalence and strong admiration for Karajan far better than I could do.

Thomas Roth, that 1960's set is looking like an essential purchase and at around £150, not one my bank balance will like at all! Oh dear! I feel the urge coming on...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

[Petrushka]

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/ht...ion/index.html

I'm seriously thinking of taking the plunge and buying this set. Some of the CD's do seem very short measure but I realise that the point behind this set is to replicate the original LP issues. I have a few of the recordings on Galleria and DG Originals but not enough to deter me. Anyone else on the boards got this? Cheapest I can find is £139 on MDT. Most espensive is HMV.com at £216.

[akiralx]

I'm seriously thinking of taking the plunge and buying this set. Some of the CD's do seem very short measure but I realise that the point behind this set is to replicate the original LP issues. I have a few of the recordings on Galleria and DG Originals but not enough to deter me. Anyone else on the boards got this? Cheapest I can find is £139 on MDT. Most espensive is HMV.com at £216.

You may want to check out the DG Karajan Master Recording boxset which is smaller,and has many of these.

[cloughie]

Re # 57 and # 58 surely that performance was the pits.

What a Gorm(ley)less response!

[Petrushka]

You may want to check out the DG Karajan Master Recording boxset which is smaller,and has many of these.

Thanks, akiralx. A couple of wins on the horses enabled me to buy the 1960s set three weeks ago. I've obviously not been able to play all 82 CD's yet but having played several I think that Karajan's recordings need to be re-assessed in a more positive light. Critics at the time never seemed to like his Symphonie Fantastique, Dvorak New World or Schubert 9 while no less a person than Stravinsky himself mocked HvK's Rite of Spring. Listening to these for the first time I found them all excellent and in stunning sound, far better than that achieved later in the Philharmonie.

This is a set to treasure and return to again and again.

[BBMmk2]

I might have to twist MrsBBM's or anyone's arm to acquire this set!!!

Is it the earlier recordiong opf Le Sacre on this set?

[amateur51]

Thanks, akiralx. A couple of wins on the horses enabled me to buy the 1960s set three weeks ago. I've obviously not been able to play all 82 CD's yet but having played several I think that Karajan's recordings need to be re-assessed in a more positive light. Critics at the time never seemed to like his Symphonie Fantastique, Dvorak New World or Schubert 9 while no less a person than Stravinsky himself mocked HvK's Rite of Spring. Listening to these for the first time I found them all excellent and in stunning sound, far better than that achieved later in the Philharmonie.

This is a set to treasure and return to again and again.

Good to hear Petrushka. I confess that I suffer from severe Karanophobia in relation to his personality which I've never overcome in relation to his recordings which is, in the clear light of day, plain silly of course.

[Petrushka]

I might have to twist MrsBBM's or anyone's arm to acquire this set!!!

Is it the earlier recordiong opf Le Sacre on this set?

Yes, all the recordings in this set date from the 1960s and the Rite is the one that caused Stravinsky to make his mocking comments. To be honest, I can't see what his problem was exactly. Perhaps the LP medium did it few favours. This latest CD incarnation sounds pretty good to me.

Take no notice of Mrs BBM, just get it! Mind you, the size of the set is such that she will hardly be able to miss it.

[vinteuil]

- just get it!:.

... do those who have the two big EMI boxes [ ] also have to get it??? .

[PJPJ]

..... while no less a person than Stravinsky himself mocked HvK's Rite of Spring.....

'E would, wouldn't 'e..

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Stravinsky disliked and distrusted the cult of the conductor as he saw epitomized in Karajan. He referred to Karajan's "sluggish" tempi and the "too polished" character of the recording (a "tamed savage", "too much soul-searching in a work where there is no room for soul-searching").

It says quite a lot about Karajan that he reconsidered his attitude to the score and re-recorded it in the much more ferocious recording from the late '70s. Had he just been the narcissistic egomaniac his detractors wished him solely to be, he would have disregarded the composer's criticisms and/or simply have dropped the piece from his repertoire. This was a lifelong characteristic about works he revered - demanding Strauss tell him what was wrong with his performances of his works, rather than revelling in the composer's characteristic praise for any performance as "the best he'd ever heard". Less attentive to detail with other works - Tippett's Child of Our Time, Walton's 1st Symphony, for examples.