Karajanophobia; is there a cure?

[umslopogaas]

#29 Dave2002, there is also a Decca recording of Leimer's piano concerto no. 4, with Leimer as soloist, conducted by Wagner (no details of which Wagner that is). LP number is SXL 2100. My 2006 Rare Classical LP Price Guide suggests you'd have to pay £750 for a first issue of that one in good condition. Its very rare, I've never seen it in twenty years of collecting. A copy went on ebay for £311 three years ago. However, the information in the Guide is rather sketchy and I dont know if "no. 4" is the one in C minor or the one for left hand, the two that EMI are offering. Leimer is rather obscure, he doesnt get a mention in the 2010 Penguin Guide.

[Parry1912]

Since the DG symphony collection http://www.amazon.co.uk/Karajan-Symp...7234834&sr=1-9 seems to have become expensive, or only available as a used item, I wondered if this EMI collection is worth having - http://www.sainsburysentertainment.c...duct=E10123872 (88 CDs).

I've got both of those EMI boxes and I can't recommend them highly enough. The Wagner, Strauss, Verdi, Beethoven, Ravel and Bruckner are outstanding and the rest is pretty good!

[PJPJ]

Kurt Leimer

http://www.kurtleimer.ch/

I haven't seen that Decca LP either.

Bio http://www.kurtleimer.ch/300_e_biography.htm

[Karafan]

Well, I may as well weigh-in with my old tuppeneth on the subject, given my Monicker!

I have (I think) every commercial recording (and a number of non-commercial) he made and they form the basis of my collection. However, I must say that in the past few years I have very rarely played one of HvK's, preferring these days Kempe, Furtwängler, Böhm or some other podium luminary.

I am not sure why this should be the case - musical tastes changing as one ages, familiarity breeding contempt...who knows?

I am not saying I would ever ditch the Karajan collection and there are certainly some composers for whom he is always the touchstone (Bruckner, for instance), though I must say that I really would not turn to any of the HvK cycles these days for Beethoven symphonies - preferring any number of alternatives, ditto for Brahms (late Kempe, anyone?) and Mozart.

Having said that, the suggestions being posted in this interesting thread may prompt me to revisit the Karajan shelves I have been rather neglecting of late....

Best wishes to all,

K.

[vinteuil]

On the whole the qualities often praised in van Karajan (the perfection, the brilliance, the smooth sheen) are not qualities that appeal to me.
And as my preferred way in to music is predominantly HIPP, again Karajan is not normally a choice.

But - I remember Kenneth Gilbert, harpsichordist and committed HIPP man, saying that, for him, the most 'musical' performance of the Bach B minor Mass he had ever heard was that of Karajan. (This was back in the late 70s; his views might have changed since... )

[Barbirollians]

His Sibelius 4 on EMI I have always had a very high opinion of - I am afraid megalomania set in in the 80s and his recordings really suffered. Live , however, as that amazing Brahms 1 on Testament shows he could still produce magnificent stuff in concert .

[verismissimo]

I think HvK in the opera house is rather more impressive proposition in general.

I think you may be right, mak, but not according to this thread!

Particular favourites for me are Karajan's:

Figaro
Magic Flute
Cosi
Otello
Aida
Ring Cycle
Hansel und Gretel
Fledermaus
Rosenkavalier
Salome

[amateur51]

For me, the 1961/2 Collector's Edition [DG 463 088-2] of the nine Beethoven Symphonies with the Berlin Symphony Orchestra is unsurpassable. Even the ninth symphony (the one I hate) is superbly performed and the singers, Gundula Janowitz, Hilde Rössel-Majdan, Waldemar Kmentt and Walter Berry make a most impressive solo 4tet.

That's the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, HS

[Hornspieler]

That's the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, HS

Of course! Thanks for that correction. Much appreciated.

HS

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Can I wave a flag for the (alas, mono) Balakirev 1st Symphony with the Philharmonia? Beecham, to name but one, pales by comparison.

You wave it, Dougie, and I'll cheer it! I bought this as a Columbia LP from a second-hand shop in the mid-70s (20p!) and now have it on CD (in the same 80th Birthday Edition series that also had the Philharmonia Sibelius recordings btw) - irresistable Music making!

[Rolmill]

You wave it, Dougie, and I'll cheer it! I bought this as a Columbia LP from a second-hand shop in the mid-70s (20p!) and now have it on CD (in the same 80th Birthday Edition series that also had the Philharmonia Sibelius recordings btw) - irresistable Music making!

...and I'll salute it - that Balakirev 1st is terrific. Like many, I have a curate's egg reaction to HvK's recorded legacy, but if anyone doubts his qualities (or like Vinteuil above associates him largely with smooth perfection), I would point them to those early - mid 1950s Philharmonia recordings. My highlights (in addition to the Balakirev and Sibelius 4 already noted) include a stunning Roussel 4th symphony and an intense performance of Britten's Frank Bridge variations.

[Beef Oven]

Although I like HvK as a musician, I think that it is disgraceful that he was once was a member of the Liberal Democrats (apparently, he didn't even deny it).

[pastoralguy]

I heard a story recently from a well known musician who had been offered a principle wind job with the Berlin Phil. Herbie was so keen to get him that he told this person he would ensure his musician wife got a playing job with the Berlin Radio Symphony!!

Now THAT is power!

(I don't want to be too specific since the player is still active!)

[Beef Oven]

I heard a story recently from a well known musician who had been offered a principle wind job with the Berlin Phil. Herbie was so keen to get him that he told this person he would ensure his musician wife got a playing job with the Berlin Radio Symphony!!

Now THAT is power!

(I don't want to be too specific since the player is still active!)

Hasn't your keyboard got any principals?

[jayne lee wilson]

I wish I could find Richard Osborne's description of Karajan (in his later years) as resembling an ancient Chinese Sage, or an Austrian peasant farmer... It must be somewhere in that magisterial biography...