Improvising on minor chords

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4180

    Improvising on minor chords

    I am posting this thread on the Classical section of this messageboard as I think there will be a broader range of people who can possibly answer my question.

    Yesterday I started to transpose Andrew Hill's composition "Pumpkin" for a tenor saxophonist friend and then sat about looking at how the harmonies might be employed as a basis for improvising on the piano. In jazz the more interesting chords are dominants, especially when you add "accidental" notes such as flattened 9th's etc which help to make the tonal centre more ambiguous. This is really good fun and I love the idea of being able to play "outside" the structure of a given chord. Dominants are very good for this as are other chords which are non-diatonic such as half-diminished.

    The problem with "Pumpkin" is that the music consists largely of minor chords. Here you have the option of paying Dorian scales or you can use the melodic minor scale but it is clear that Hill intended to use the modal scale and not the latter option. The tune is structured AABA and the first 6 bars of the tune consists of a G minor with a D in the root. (I.e. an inversion.) The bridge consists of four E flat minor sixths followed by a C minor before there is an option of dominant chords in the last three bars of the B section. This effectively means that there is a lot of minor chords here.

    It is also possible to omprovise intervalically and constructs triads on the Dorian scales. Unfortunately the triads for a G minor, for example, are B flat and C which all fall in the key of F major. This means that there is little colour when you improvise on these chords.

    Does anyone know of other ways to improvise on these minor chords or how to employ substitutions so that there is more interest?

    Thanking you in anticipation.

    Cheers

    Ian
  • Mark Sealey
    Full Member
    • Mar 2007
    • 85

    #2
    Ian,

    Wonder if you've (inadvertently?) hinted at one possible solution: adding 7ths, 9ths, and even 11ths and 13ths. I don't know 'Pumpkin' but if you extend chords beyond even an inverted triad for the Gm section, wouldn't that add colour - especially when you start diminishing/augmenting them? In the case of the inversions, you can also change the root, surely, to introduce intended ambiguity around the dominant. Good luck!
    --
    Mark

    Comment

    • Ian Thumwood
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4180

      #3
      Msealey

      Thanks for your suggestion.

      I think the solution has got to be augmenting or diminishing the extensions of the chords. If you go up in 7th, 9ths 11th and 13ths ths problem is that you are still in the same tonal centre. I.e. Take a G minor 7th (G, Bflat, D, F) and extend it upwards with A, C and E, all these notes still belong to the G Dorian scale which runs G, A, B flat, C. D. E, F, G. The same applies to the triads based on this scale which are B flat major triad and a C major triad. All these solutions will be in the key of F major. You will have the same situation if you use the inversions.

      What I think you need to find are notes that fit which don't beling to the key of F major. I sumultaneously posed this question afterwards on another board as it has been bothering me for some while and I was told to diminish and augment by , for example, using a scale a semi-tone down or try usin g various other minor scales. The solution I was given was to improvise melodically and not get hung up on chords. I will give this a try tomorrow although when I have tried this with a group, the bassist always gets really iirate!

      Thanks for your inout.

      Cheers

      Ian

      Comment

      • Mark Sealey
        Full Member
        • Mar 2007
        • 85

        #4
        Ian,

        By the sounds of it, you're right: if the dissonance that would result from diminishing/augmenting adds that colour you're looking for, then certainly.
        --
        Mark

        Comment

        • aka Calum Da Jazbo
          Late member
          • Nov 2010
          • 9173

          #5
          Ian, knowing that you appreciate the playing of Walter Bishop Jr. wondered if you had come across his exposition on harmonisation on youtube:

          For another perspective on Mr. Bishop's Theory of Fourths from Frank Piccinini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_pD9ZMWwgYJazz piano legend Walter Bishop, ...


          NB check the side bar for more eg:

          Milestones: https://amzn.to/2R6aqNkJazz piano legend Walter Bishop, Jr. discusses and demonstrates comping and chord voicings, with the help of vocalist Kat...
          According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

          Comment

          • Simon

            #6
            ...improvise melodically and not get hung up on chords.
            I think that is good advice. I'm no composer, but as an organist I have to improvise. To be honest, though I do know sometimes roughly where I want to go, I play with the flow and stick in the harmonies as appropriate. I rarely think about what they are, being more concerned with the shape and feel of what I am playing as a whole. That said, I'm quite conservative in idiom, and though dissonance is fine, I generally resolve it according to the traditional harmonic rules.

            Good luck!

            S-S!

            Comment

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