Tom Service contemporary Music at the Graun

[aeolium]

On the other hand, Aeolium, I do think one should expect the astonishment FG describes. Why settle for less?

I suppose my expectations are lower - I don't expect to have all my preconceptions confounded every time I encounter a work that is new to me, or to encounter something 'I could never have dreamed possible' every time. I think that would be a tough ask even of the greatest artists who have ever lived, let alone lesser mortals.

[Panjandrum]

I have a "fertile obsession" with what I want from encountering Art: I want to be overwhelmed by it; I want my life to be "better" for having experienced it; I want to be astonished; I want my prejudices and preconceptions turned on their heads by it.

Isn't that a bit exhausting Ferns?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Isn't that a bit exhausting Ferns?

Cod Liver Oil and bed by 11:00 (pm!) - the secret of my excess!

[heliocentric]

Cod Liver Oil and bed by 11:00

Don't boast about it or they'll make it illegal.

For the sceptics: imagine a piece of music which has had a profound effect on you, say for the sake of argument the Beethoven C minor Sonata op.111. (Or, to remove the "classical" label as I suggested, Trout Mask Replica or On the Corner or the Gong Kebyar style of gamelan music.) Then imagine that you've never heard it before and indeed you only had a sketchy idea of who Beethoven was and what his work is like, although the rest of your musical knowledge, intuition and experience remain intact. Then imagine going to a concert or listening to a broadcast or a CD and hearing it for the first time. That's the kind of thing one might look forward to from hearing new music. Of course it doesn't happen very often, but then it wouldn't have done in 1822 either. But it does happen. Even without cod liver oil.

[MrGongGong]

I have a "fertile obsession" with what I want from encountering Art: I want to be overwhelmed by it; I want my life to be "better" for having experienced it; I want to be astonished; I want my prejudices and preconceptions turned on their heads by it. Art needs time,

Absolutely agree with you

Today we have figures like Alexander Goehr bemoaning the ironic fact that the last generally recognised greats in the canon of western music, Shostakovitch, Britten and Messiaen, are now gone, and unreplaced, and this, to me, bespeaks a lapse of confidence - one that is illustrated in the little discussion taking place on this forum about contemporary music, in my view.

I think folk like Sandy Goehr (and no offence at all to a really interesting and intelligent man) are looking in the wrong place. Often the most interesting and inspiring things in music are happening outside the "mainstream" of musical practice , (which is one reason why we have R3 in the first place) ! Much of the music created by his ex students (as referenced on another thread !) is competent and accomplished but isn't going to set the world on fire. The Nancarrows of this world tend not to go and do a Phd at Oxbridge.

[heliocentric]

outside the "mainstream" of musical practice

I'm glad you put that in inverted commas, because the idea that there IS a mainstream (and therefore by extension also a "periphery" or "fringe" or "leftfield" or whatever) is something invented in order to reinforce borders and defend territory, to make for example someone like Goehr look more "important" than someone like Nancarrow.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed
which is why the moans from those in the self selected "mainstream" complaining about Sound And Music (great acronym ) supposedly "abandoning" notated composition in favour of "soundart" are more than a little ridiculous (there's much wrong with S&M but that's not it !) .........

[french frank]

I can understand the view that 'mainstream' and 'importance' are not connected. But what is it about music/art which means that it doesn't have a mainstream? Or that 'leftfield' can't be an indication of where the most interesting work is being done? Or that declaring that you are 'mainstream' can't mean that you see yourself as being in a contemporary comfort zone which is nevertheless where you want to be?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

imagine a piece of music which has had a profound effect on you, say for the sake of argument the Beethoven C minor Sonata op.111. (Or, to remove the "classical" label as I suggested, Trout Mask Replica or On the Corner or the Gong Kebyar style of gamelan music.) Then imagine that you've never heard it before and indeed you only had a sketchy idea of who Beethoven was and what his work is like, although the rest of your musical knowledge, intuition and experience remain intact. Then imagine going to a concert or listening to a broadcast or a CD and hearing it for the first time. That's the kind of thing one might look forward to from hearing new music. Of course it doesn't happen very often, but then it wouldn't have done in 1822 either. But it does happen. Even without cod liver oil.

the soundtrack top A Hard Day's Night had that effect on me .... never recovered, obsessive fan of their music ever since ... just like Brahms .... [and i am intrigued by Gal after CD Review this am and that COTW chappie .... music can be new to an awful lot of people without being new at all ..... and could we at some point explore and compare the best of L&M, Bacharach and Schubert songs ...?