Film Music

[Guest]

Just wondered what other board members thought about Film music. I was having a discussion with a friend about classical music and film music he loves film music but he said he wasnt going to get anything out of classical as its just the same, i said that film music didnt have any depth or was not seen as being a serious expression of artistic intent. He was almost in a state of shock as he couldnt believe id said film music didnt have any depth.

I enjoy film scores and im a fan of Korngold's swashbuckler's just for pure enjoyment, but to my ears and years of listening to classical the two forms of music are completely seperate. Film scores lack the depth and complexity.

One of my friend's favourite film scores is Vertigo, to me the love theme from that is 3rd rate watered down Tristan und Isolde. Sorry Bernard.

Will be interesting to hear what others think of film scores. Of course on saying all that i would love a job as a film composer

[Chris Newman]

I think I know what you mean, BeethovensQuill. Take Ennio (Eric) Morriconi or Bernard Herrmann (whom you mention): in the context of their greatest films they really send shivers down your spine and the films would be only 45% as thrilling without their contribution. Those Clint Eastwood westerns and Hitchcock films would seem corny without the music. Hitch's scripts often are: his technique and the music make them things of wonder. Sadly because these composers mostly wrote gobbets to fit the tense moments of films they neglected their fuller compositions. If you hear a through composed work by Herrmann, Ron Grainer or Miklos Rosza you desperately wish they had written more fully developed music like that. They are fine composers. A few like Malcolm Arnold, Georges Auric (those wonderful Ealing comedies), Dmitri Shostakovich and William Walton managed to do both.

[sigolene euphemia]

Michael Nyman illustrates Peter Greenaway films in a way that adds dialogue when words cannot touch the emotion.

Another film maker Jeremy Newson, has a Michael Nyman score for "Not Mozart: Letters, Riddles and Writs"

[salymap]

I always resisted Bruckner's symphonies [shock, horror] but one day I was listening to Hermann's music for North by North West and realised it owed a lot to the scherzo of Bruckner's symphony no 0. It wasn't fully developed of course but it caught my attention. So film music that's good enough can lead to better things.
I love the purely popular pieces from the past, such as the Cornish Rhapsody,Warsaw Concerto, Glass Mountain as they recall such wonderful corny old films and are good 'of their kind' surely

[doversoul1]

Isn’t it rather like the difference between Art and Craft? Film music is composed for a particular ‘use’ and not as expression of the composer as the prime purpose. May be like painting and illustration, too. They have different values. I love the music from Lawrence of Arabia but to hear it as a kid of a suite isn’t all that exciting. West Side Story is now part of classical music repertoire but I’d say it is the brilliance rather than the depth that is so appealing. And besides, everybody has seen the film or stage which counts a lot, I think.

[amateur51]

I think I know what you mean, BeethovensQuill. Take Ennio (Eric) Morriconi or Bernard Herrmann (whom you mention): in the context of their greatest films they really send shivers down your spine and the films would be only 45% as thrilling without their contribution. Those Clint Eastwood westerns and Hitchcock films would seem corny without the music. Hitch's scripts often are: his technique and the music make them things of wonder. Sadly because these composers mostly wrote gobbets to fit the tense moments of films they neglected their fuller compositions. If you hear a through composed work by Herrmann, Ron Grainer or Miklos Rosza you desperately wish they had written more fully developed music like that. They are fine composers. A few like Malcolm Arnold, Georges Auric (those wonderful Ealing comedies), Dmitri Shostakovich and William Walton managed to do both.

Good examples, Chris.

I'd throw in Nino Rota's film music too and some of his concertos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqC6kRCLjI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWyZk8s2oyg&feature=related

Muti has recorded some of both

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strada-Ballet-Suite-Orchestra-Filarmonica/dp/B000002APZ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1292964011&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rota-Piano-Concertos-Nino/dp/B000031W6K/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1292964011&sr=1-6

[BeethovensQuill]

Interesting reading the comments so far. I agree Doversoul film music is not a serious expression of artistic intent, the film composer is working to a set time frame and writing music to a specific scene. As you say its like Blake's illustrations of Dahl's stories they compliment them very well, but it cant be compared to say someone like Kandinsky who bared his soul through painting. I think my friend may have taken the huff with me after i said that film scores have no depth, but i think he needed to hear the truth ;)

As i mentioned im a fan of Korngold's film scores, and im interested in getting to know Rosza's music, anyone have any recommendations?

Sigolene just noticed you stay in the Grampian Highlands which is where i stay aswell, small world.

[doversoul1]

I think my friend may have taken the huff with me after i said that film scores have no depth, but i think he needed to hear the truth ;)

That’s rather like saying ‘this balloon has no weight’

[Tevot]

Clearly film makers do appreciate the power of music to reinforce emotions / mood depicted on the screen. Kubrick springs to mind - particularly the use of Ligeti in 2001. Another example is a Nicole Kidman film called "Birth" which uses Wagner - an excerpt from Die Walkure - to underline the character's growing loss of control. Another film I'd recommend is "The Offence" starring Sean Connery and Ian Bannen - a powerful and unsettling film with a score by Harrison Birtwistle no less!

Best wishes,

Tevot

[groovydavidii]

For me Dmitri Toimkin film scores are integral in the silver screen's history, the theme of Manha De Carnaval, from the film "Black Orpheus"–helped export the emerging Bossa Nova to a wider world, Miles Davis's Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud (Lift To The Scaffold) was/is a distillation of Cool–both major contributions, also Brad Fiedel's visceral anvil hammering of The Terminator's arrival is worthy top-drawer sci-fi genre composing, Prokoviev and Shostakovich, Bernstein are among classical composers who wrote/write film music, could cross the other side and return–yes there is a division, but occasionally paths merge, IMO some film music is definitely superior to some mediocre classical creation, it seems therefore if you recognise a quality piece of music from whatever category, enjoy.

[amateur51]

I recall being bowled over in the cinema by the music soundtrack for 'There Will Be Blood' by Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead. It seemed to add much to the impact of the visuals, creating tension and drama in moments which were cinematically slowly relentless. making the film quite devastating in places.

I've seen the film again on some friends' home cinema system (a 60" monitor and earth-shuddering sub-woofers) and it worked its magic again. Definitely a film & score that work best in larger presentations.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

contrariwise Kubrick's Barry Lyndon is the most exquisite blend of music and images but it relies entirely on Kubrick's selection of pieces rather than a composed score .... Handel, Schubert, Mozart ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Lyndon

it is a great film one of his very best ....

[BeethovensQuill]

That’s rather like saying ‘this balloon has no weight’

haha very true

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yep but a lack of weight is a virtue in a balloon, but surface tension ....

[BetweenTheStaves]

I'd argue that a piece of classical music stands on its own merits. It can be heard and enjoyed and provide depth and subtlety without any visual reference. A piece of film music heard without its visual prop is empty and ephemeral.