The contrary motion scale

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ever since my piano teacher first intriduced me to the contrary motion scale, I have been puzzled by its frequent used by baroque and classical composers. Why? Because it appears to break so many of the other incredibly strict rules of harmony of the time, with a chord sequence of :
I - VIIb - VIc - V7d - V7 - VI - Vb - I
or the the other way round.

However you look at it, this would have caused me to receive a metaphorical rap on the knuckles from my harmony teachers...

[Serial_Apologist]

Ever since my piano teacher first intriduced me to the contrary motion scale, I have been puzzled by its frequent used by baroque and classical composers. Why? Because it appears to break so many of the other incredibly strict rules of harmony of the time, with a chord sequence of :
I - VIIb - VIc - V7d - V7 - VI - Vb - I
or the the other way round.

However you look at it, this would have caused me to receive a metaphorical rap on the knuckles from my harmony teachers...

How about Schoenberg's 1st Chamber Symphony, in which even Beethoven's and Bach's comparative observance of harmonic norms of the time by "tweaking" the inverted order of tones and semitones so as to make them "euphonious" was abandoned in favour of "correct" orderings by using the resulting "dissonances" as passing notes (actual or potential)?

The resulting "clashes" were certainly subvertive of "listener expectations" as well as theoretical niceties, but they paved the way for atonality, and the completely "new" ways of listening neccessitated by Schoenberg's opening up of music to new expressive realms.

Many people still to this day can't manage to take these advances on board, more than 100 years after Schoenberg's composition; imv they are missing out!

S-A

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My point was that this scale seemed to flout the there conventions of the time, and I've yet to see evidence on anyone raising an eyebrow.

[rauschwerk]

I can't call any examples to mind, but surely in practice the scale would never be played slowly enough for there to be a different chord on each note?

[Pabmusic]

I can't call any examples to mind, but surely in practice the scale would never be played slowly enough for there to be a different chord on each note?

This is what I was thinking. Any scales (in contrary motion or not) in 'older' music tend to be reasonably fast, and so wouldn't ever be harmonised note-by-note. Instead, the potentially problematic notes would become passing notes between strong harmonic ones*, giving rise to no concerns.

*Or appoggiaturas on strong notes.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I can't call any examples to mind, but surely in practice the scale would never be played slowly enough for there to be a different chord on each note?

You've never heard me practising, rauschy*!

Don't the conventions of voice-leading over-ride those of four-part harmony in this case, Alpie?







(* = Lucky you! )

[Serial_Apologist]

You've never heard me practising, rauschy*!

Don't the conventions of voice-leading over-ride those of four-part harmony in this case, Alpie?







(* = Lucky you! )

*Do* these conventions still apply? I'd imagined the went out with Stanford. To what do they apply?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

*Do* these conventions still apply? I'd imagined the went out with Stanford. To what do they apply?

Alpie's OP referred to the "incredibly strict rules of harmony of the time" (and, in #3, the "conventions" of the Baroque). My "get out of jail free card" with these "rules" (which Bach joyfully diregarded) is that "Voice -Leading" as far as JSB is concerned, is more important (especially in a two-part texture) than conventions of Chord progression in 4-part harmony.

[Serial_Apologist]

Alpie's OP referred to the "incredibly strict rules of harmony of the time" (and, in #3, the "conventions" of the Baroque). My "get out of jail free card" with these "rules" (which Bach joyfully diregarded) is that "Voice -Leading" as far as JSB is concerned, is more important (especially in a two-part texture) than conventions of Chord progression in 4-part harmony.

Fair enough. I was "thrown" by Alpie's referring to *his* harmony teacher...

[Bryn]

Somebody had to do it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Somebody had to do it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Fair enough. I was "thrown" by Alpie's referring to *his* harmony teacher...

My, she was strict. We nicknamed her "Annie" after Annie Warburton.

[teamsaint]

My, she was strict. We nicknamed her "Annie" after Annie Warburton.

I seem to recall having to play Bb major CM, and that it was an absolute pig to play !!

or is my memory going.....................

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I seem to recall having to play Bb major CM, and that it was an absolute pig to play !!

or is my memory going.....................

Try E flat minor next.