Schubert Fierrabras

[LeMartinPecheur]

Tuned in to this c8pm, knew it had to be Schubert (not difficult at the moment I agree) but my brain started whispering 'early Wagner'.

Is there any evidence that Mr Dick Carter ever learned from Schubert's operas? (I realise that Wagnerians may hold that he needed only the influence of LvB to conceive his lifetime task) Or is any resemblance more likely to be a matter of common influences such as Weber and Marschner?

[Roehre]

Tuned in to this c8pm, knew it had to be Schubert (not difficult at the moment I agree) but my brain started whispering 'early Wagner'.

Is there any evidence that Mr Dick Carter every learned from Schubert's operas? (I realise that Wagnerians may hold that he needed only the influence of LvB to conceive his lifetime task) Or is any resemblance more likely to be a matter of common influences such as Weber and Marschner?

Take your chance and listen to Des Teufels Lustschloss now it still is available on iPlayer (as as far as I can see it is not available in any recorded format), and discover that Beethoven's Fidelio was definitely going through Schubert's mind while composing (the finale particularly), but surely he was ahead of Weber (Euryanthe, Oberon and Freischütz), especially in the music like the latter's Wolfsschluchtszene.
Weber is unlikely to have known Schubert's operatic works, but the coincidence is frappant.
Wagner adored Weber (repatriated the latter's earthly remains from London to Dresden in 1843 e.g., and especially composed music based on Weber's works for this event), but - like him- is unlikely to have known any of Schubert's operas.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Thanks Roehre. There seemed to be a good shot of Fidelio later on in Fierrabras tonight - something like a straight lift of LvB's climactic trumpet calls particularly.

[Roehre]

Thanks Roehre. There seemed to be a good shot of Fidelio later on in Fierrabras tonight - something like a straight lift of LvB's climactic trumpet calls particularly.

Those trumpets just before (or just in) the final scene: typically a case of Fidelian influence

[David-G]

There is a very interesting discussion of Fierrabras in Elizabeth Norman McKay's chapter "Schubert as a composer of operas" (in Eva Badura-Skoda and Peter Branscombe's "Schubert Studies"), which you can find here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zjH5IEXwIeUC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=fierrabras+freischutz&source=bl&ots=AIEMeVi-LA&sig=IxFzrLiIO1Ky0Iom2xwyVHjCLfQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BTBuT8_XKISr0QWdm9mNAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=fierrabras%20freischutz&f=true

She discusses in particular the relation between Fierrabras and Weber's Euryanthe.

[kernelbogey]

my brain started whispering 'early Wagner'.

I also had this thought, LMP, during an extract, at some point in the last 48 hours, but from which opera I can't now recall (or find in the R3 schedule).

But what about Gluck? No one has mentioned him on this thread, and I'm fairly sure I heard someone say that Franz was an admirer of Willibald.

I also learned yesterday that Schubert had studied with Salieri. Wonder how he fits into this?

[Roehre]

There is a very interesting discussion of Fierrabras in Elizabeth Norman McKay's chapter "Schubert as a composer of operas" (in Eva Badura-Skoda and Peter Branscombe's "Schubert Studies"), which you can find here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zjH5IEXwIeUC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=fierrabras+freischutz&source=bl&ots=AIEMeVi-LA&sig=IxFzrLiIO1Ky0Iom2xwyVHjCLfQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BTBuT8_XKISr0QWdm9mNAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=fierrabras%20freischutz&f=true

She discusses in particular the relation between Fierrabras and Weber's Euryanthe.

Thanks David-G, definitely a kind of eye opener (or confirming thoughts about some kind of relationship anyway)

[David-G]

It has been a pleasure to be able to discuss Schubert's music in this thread, separately from the problems of the "Schubert-Fest", and the shortcomings of R3 policy and R3 presenters, which dominate the other thread. Might I suggest that if interesting questions or comments arise regarding other Schubert works, this might be a good place to discuss them?

[Roehre]

It has been a pleasure to be able to discuss Schubert's music in this thread, separately from the problems of the "Schubert-Fest", and the shortcomings of R3 policy and R3 presenters, which dominate the other thread. Might I suggest that if interesting questions or comments arise regarding other Schubert works, this might be a good place to discuss them?

Good idea. A specific thread for such another work migth work too, ofcourse.

[kernelbogey]

It has been a pleasure to be able to discuss Schubert's music in this thread, separately from the problems of the "Schubert-Fest", and the shortcomings of R3 policy and R3 presenters, which dominate the other thread. Might I suggest that if interesting questions or comments arise regarding other Schubert works, this might be a good place to discuss them?