Applause

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Exactly WHO decides this then ?
If you say it's "tradition" then you really need to read some more music history
And who on earth are these "prommers" anyway who in a self appointed act of bufton-tuftonism have decided who is allowed to attend their festival and how they should behave ?

It isn't tradition. It's evolution, based upon experience. Over time, people have come to an understanding that the audience should let the music speak without interruption until it has ended.

[MrGongGong]

It isn't tradition. It's evolution, based upon experience. Over time, people have come to an understanding that the audience should let the music speak without interruption until it has ended.

Regardless of content and context ?

[teamsaint]

Applause between movements seems to still be a bit of an open question.

Since it does sometimes happen at the proms, perhaps instead of the partial, start/stop kind of muted applause between movements, there could be an experiment at certain specified proms to actively encourage whatever response the audience feel like giving, and see how it pans out.

I am against applauding the paid artists before they have so much as played a note. Let them earn their applause , I say !!

[Bryn]

It isn't tradition. It's evolution, based upon experience. Over time, people have come to an understanding that the audience should let the music speak without interruption until it has ended.

Oh no it's not. is simply a mater of fashion. You find it fashionable to sit on your hands, others find it fashionable to show approbation by slapping theirs together while the orchestra retunes and throats are cleared throughout the performance venue.

[french frank]

Oh no it's not. is simply a mater of fashion. You find it fashionable to sit on your hands, others find it fashionable to show approbation by slapping theirs together

I don't think that's quite logical. 'Fashionable' means nothing at all if it's entirely subjective. What is 'in fashion' is fashionable.

Insofar as either is 'fashionable' at the moment, it is what predominantly occurs which is: no applause. There may be the beginnings of a change but at the moment it isn't clear whether we shall revert to the previous 'fashion' (applaud when you like) or stay with the current one.

[Panjandrum]

Oh no it's not. is simply a mater of fashion. You find it fashionable to sit on your hands, others find it fashionable to show approbation by slapping theirs together while the orchestra retunes and throats are cleared throughout the performance venue.

Mmmm..really?

How about this contemporary account of the reception of Lucrezia Borgia from 1860: "Not a note of Donizetti's delicious music was lost on him. There he sat, high above his neighbours, smiling, and nodding his great head enjoyingly from time to time. When the people near him applauded the close of an air (as an English audience in such circumstances always WILL applaud), without the least consideration for the orchestral movement which immediately followed it, he looked round at them with an expression of compassionate remonstrance, and held up one hand with a gesture of polite entreaty."

[Bryn]

No lack of logic in my comment, frenchie. It's simply a matter of opposing fashions. Some find it fashionable to ape the behaviour of 18th century audiences, others find it fashionable to emulate a school detention session until the bell rings. As it happens, I tend towards the latter, but have been known to cough and splutter between movements. Frankly, I find my concentration on the music performed during separate movements is no more disrupted by applause between them than it is by retuning or a barrage of coughing and fidgeting. In fact, I find it less so. There again, I don't go to concerts to sneer at those who fail to follow any prevailing fashion. I go for the music.

Where do you get the idea that two or more competing fashions cannot exist at the same time?

[MrGongGong]

If you want to have your music presented as a solemn religious ritual then there are places you can go for this ! (Late night in St Pauls hall for example !) but to try and insist on this for ALL music , particularly at a festival like the Proms, is ridiculous.
Some people become electroacoustic composers because they are dis-satisfied with the inaccuracies in live performances of their music and some give up going to concerts all together as they find being with other people intolerable so spend their money on a pair of Grado headphones instead

[Bryn]

Mmmm..really?

How about this contemporary account of the reception of Lucrezia Borgia from 1860: "Not a note of Donizetti's delicious music was lost on him. There he sat, high above his neighbours, smiling, and nodding his great head enjoyingly from time to time. When the people near him applauded the close of an air (as an English audience in such circumstances always WILL applaud), without the least consideration for the orchestral movement which immediately followed it, he looked round at them with an expression of compassionate remonstrance, and held up one hand with a gesture of polite entreaty."

You make my point very well with that quote, except that's opera, and we all know that opera audiences give not a jot for the music.

Less flippantly, I intensely dislike applause during movements in music of the European classical tradition. That does interfere with the music and ones ability to hear, let alone concentrate on, it. Where, in opera performances, the orchestra continues attacca following a vocal stint, I really do dislike the long established fashion among opera audiences to drown the orchestra in clapped out applause, and it's by no means merely an English phenomenon. Applause between separate movements, as against those which follow on attacca, is a quite different matter.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Fashion is bullying by a commercial interest, or a focus group. Applause in the middle of a work is just inconsiderate.

Discuss.

[cloughie]

Fashion is bullying by a commercial interest, or a focus group. Applause in the middle of a work is just inconsiderate.

Discuss.

[MrGongGong]

Fashion is bullying by a commercial interest, or a focus group. Applause in the middle of a work is just inconsiderate.
Discuss.

You need to be more specific about context IMV
where , when , which music ?

Applause is as much part of musicking as the sounds made by those on a stage.
I'm surprised that you regard the spaces between movements as part of the music that shouldn't be interrupted
but glad that you have recognised Cage's genius and let me know if you want to borrow my copy of this rather excellent work

http://emd.pl/wiki/Christopher_DeLaurenti_%22Favourite_Intermissions%22

[Bryn]

Fashion is bullying by a commercial interest, or a focus group. Applause in the middle of a work is just inconsiderate.

Discuss.

Wingeing about how others show their approbation for music during breaks between distinct movements in a musical performance is inconsiderate towards those who choose to engage in it. During the time of composers such as Mozart and Beethoven, the applause between movements would sometimes even lead to an encore of that movement before moving on to the next. What disdain it shows for the composer, and the musicians playing, that one should deny them applause when called for at the close of a separate movement. Hurrah for the likes of Sir Roger Norrington who not only accept but even encourage the expression of appreciation for their fellow musicians' work between separate movements of a multi-movement work.

[MrGongGong]

I was once severely frowned at by a member of the audience when I joined in the inter-movement applause during a string quartet concert. Being the composer of the piece they were playing I found it more than a little amusing when I was beckoned on stage at the end (my applause was for the performers not myself !). To lay down some hidden rule (or even an overt rule) at concerts misses out part of the reason for people gathering together in one place to listen ! I guess there's not much applause at choral evensong BUT that's not what the context demands......... performances of Mozart are another thing entirely

[french frank]

Where do you get the idea that two or more competing fashions cannot exist at the same time?

Well, of course there can be millions of fashions existing at the same time. However, I would also say that a characteristic of 'fashions' is that they are temporarily popular but regularly superseded by new fashions. When it goes on for as long as the 'no clapping between movements' has, it becomes a tradition, not a fashion.

If either could be termed a 'fashion' it would be 'clap between movements if you feel moved to do so'. Whether it will replace the long-standing tradition of not applauding until (a few seconds after) the end is something we cannot know.

But I repeat that Tom Service's attitude is a nonsense and does nothing for new concert-goers who require guidance. It is for the ultra knowledgeable: "I know this is simply the end of the movement but I feel moved to applaud and shall do so; I also know that this is the end of the work but the applause should not begin until I have recovered from this wonderful experience enough to feel I can now applaud." Tom - that's as egotistical as you can get!