The LPO Four

[Guest]

Guess we'll just have to keep giving our money to the LPO.

I won't be giving the LPO any of my money for anything, I'm afraid, in light of their 'suspension' of the four musicians who signed a letter concerning the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra at the Proms. And since they are clearly intent on maintaining that stance to the bitter end I see no likelihood of my reversing that decision in the future.

[Panjandrum]

I won't be giving the LPO any of my money for anything, I'm afraid, in light of their 'suspension' of the four musicians who signed a letter concerning the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra at the Proms. And since they are clearly intent on maintaining that stance to the bitter end I see no likelihood of my reversing that decision in the future.

Yes, but let's remember the four individuals had no right to invoke the orchestra's name, in order to lend credibility to their cause.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I won't be giving the LPO any of my money for anything, I'm afraid, in light of their 'suspension' of the four musicians who signed a letter concerning the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra at the Proms. And since they are clearly intent on maintaining that stance to the bitter end I see no likelihood of my reversing that decision in the future.

This is the first I've heard of this, John. Do you know where I can find details, please?

[John Skelton]

This is the first I've heard of this, John. Do you know where I can find details, please?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/sep/16/london-philharmonic-orchestra-suspends-four-musicians

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/22/more-support-for-lpo-four

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/8779843/Artists-protest-Philharmonic-Four-suspension-full-letter.html

http://www.thestrad.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=2017

There's plenty of unsympathetic coverage too (Google for LPO 4). There's a thread on this site, too. I'm not 'up' with the latest developments, but I believe Sarah Streatfield is taking legal action against the orchestra.*

I had a correspondence with Timothy Walker on the matter, which - despite my resolute politeness - he terminated abruptly; there's a Facebook Support Group which has gone moribund that I can see. I apologise for dragging this thread off-topic. If FF wants to move or remove this I'll understand.

* Ah, here it is. http://orpheuscomplex.blogspot.com/2...-tribunal.html

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many thanks for this, John.



[Edit: Posts moved from the LSO Live thread

ff]

[BBMmk2]

There was a discussion on these boards about that then to?

[MrGongGong]

Yes, but let's remember the four individuals had no right to invoke the orchestra's name, in order to lend credibility to their cause.

Utter rubbish ...... they simply stated who they played for
the LPO have acted shamefully IMV and allowed themselves to be bullied
whilst coming out with ridiculous statements about how "music has nothing to do with politics"

I've turned down work with this orchestra because of this , some things are unacceptable and I feel that the musicians concerned deserve our support

[Panjandrum]

Utter rubbish ...... they simply stated who they played for

God you're naive Gong! The facts are: they were freelancers; they used the LPO name to add weight to their "cause".

If you set up a band called GG and the Old Nags would you be happy to keep a band member who used your name to espouse a pro-Israeli organisation?

[Nick Armstrong]

God you're naive Gong! The facts are: they were freelancers; they used the LPO name to add weight to their "cause".

If you set up a band called GG and the Old Nags would you be happy to keep a band member who used your name to espouse a pro-Israeli organisation?

For once I think Pan's right on this. But the whole thing was debated round and round at the time.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The facts are: they were freelancers; they used the LPO name to add weight to their "cause".

Not strictly true, Panjan? The orchestra management couldn't "summarily suspend from employment" anyone who wasn't in their employ?

[MrGongGong]

God you're naive Gong! The facts are: they were freelancers; they used the LPO name to add weight to their "cause".

If you set up a band called GG and the Old Nags would you be happy to keep a band member who used your name to espouse a pro-Israeli organisation?

The reason why you are wrong is that saying who you play for does not imply that the organisation endorses your opinions JUST like if an academic writes to the paper and says they are the Professor of Logic at the University in the Woods it doesn't imply that the opinion is shared by the institution. These musicians simply stated who they played for (as did the other OAE musicians) to imply that somehow their views were "policy" of the orchestra is ridiculous.
I'm freelance, if I write something about music and cultural policy it makes logical sense for me to state what I do and whom I do it with.

[Panjandrum]

For once I think Pan's right on this.

[Nick Armstrong]

We are unlikely to get any further in bridging the diverging views on this, that were repeatedly apparent last time round the block http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...7308#post87308 et seq. passim...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We are unlikely to get any further in bridging the diverging views on this, that was repeatedly apparent last time round the block http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...7308#post87308 et seq. passim...

Probably not; "bridging diverging views" on matters other than Music (and then rarely) isn't a feature of these Boards!
But I was unaware of this story until John mentioned it on the "LSO Live" Thread (I don't know how I missed it! ) and perhaps others did, too. It is something that Music lovers should be aware of, whatever their "take" on it.

[Panjandrum]

The reason why you are wrong is that saying who you play for does not imply that the organisation endorses your opinions JUST like if an academic writes to the paper and says they are the Professor of Logic at the University in the Woods it doesn't imply that the opinion is shared by the institution. These musicians simply stated who they played for (as did the other OAE musicians) to imply that somehow their views were "policy" of the orchestra is ridiculous.
I'm freelance, if I write something about music and cultural policy it makes logical sense for me to state what I do and whom I do it with.

Its noteworthy, I think, that you haven't addressed my point about whether you would be happy to have the name of your musical group used in a letter supporting pro-Israeli organisations. I'm sure you wouldn't be. FWIW, I'm sure that privately the LPO knows that no-one views these individuals' views as representative of the LPO, and maybe their response was a trifle heavy-handed, but I can appreciate the wish not to allow a precedent to be set.