Similarities in various pieces of music

[Stanfordian]

When Delibes Les Chasseresses (Fanfare) from his ballet ‘Sylvia’ and Wagner’s overture to the ‘The Flying Dutchman’ were played back to back on Classic FM I was astounded by the similarities of the orchestral sound. I wonder if anyone else has noticed similarities between various pieces of music?

[Roehre]

When Delibes Les Chasseresses (Fanfare) from his ballet ‘Sylvia’ and Wagner’s overture to the ‘The Flying Dutchman’ were played back to back on Classic FM I was astounded by the similarities of the orchestral sound. I wonder if anyone else has noticed similarities between various pieces of music?

Let's face it: this is material to fill a couple of PhD or MA theses

[MrGongGong]

I wonder if anyone else has noticed similarities between various pieces of music?

you mean like the entire work of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Puccini ?
or
Yes , some pieces have similarities ?

[Flay]

Listening to Eine Alpensinfonie I get the sneaking suspicion that I have heard a certain tune before

[Roehre]

Listening to Eine Alpensinfonie I get the sneaking suspicion that I have heard a certain tune before

What's wrong with that? Strauss thought it was a too beautiful a melody to be used only once (he said in an interview)

[Roehre]

Similarities?
We've got straightforward self-quotes, style quotes, re-using older material in adapted form, straight forward plagiarism, stylistic plagiarism, unconciously made quotes, strong influences - you name it, you'll find it

[Flay]

What's wrong with that? Strauss thought it was a too beautiful a melody to be used only once (he said in an interview)

Nothing at all. I am delighted that the tune was recycled. Surely much music is imitated and copied? There's nothing wrong with that, providing it is acknowledged (and hopefully bettered).

[Hornspieler]

There are only so many possible variations of the sequence of notes in a diatonic scale and similarities are bound to occur.

Also, the style and harmonic structure of one composer's composition can be so similar as to suggest a conscious intention to write in another composer's style.

As an example:

There is a sequence of 4 bars in the first movement of Beethoven's 4th piano concerto which sound as if they have been lifted, note for note, from Brahms' 2nd piano concerto; but surely Beethoven's concerto was written first, wasn't it?

So were both of them copying an even earlier composer? Not consciously, I'm sure.

HS

[Richard Tarleton]

The last page of Fernando Sor's Study Op 11 no 6, no 17 in the Sor-Segovia edition - where it breaks into E major - bears a striking resemblance to Percy French's "The Mountains of Mourne" (1896). Whilst the Sor came first, the song is sung (so Wikipedia tells me) to the traditional Irish folk tune Carrigdonn or Carrigdhoun as it is sometimes spelt. This was the same tune used by Thomas Moore (1779–1852) for his song "Bendemeer's Stream".

So yes, a Ph.D thesis in the making

[Pabmusic]

The openings of Schubert's 'Unfinished' and Dvorak's cello concerto are almost note-for-note the same (same key, too) - but it's possible that this was intended, as Dvorak was a great Schubert fan.

The very end of the Enigma Variations and the opening of the motto theme of Elgar's first symphony are identical, though in E flat (Enigma) and A flat respectively. It seems that Elgar was genuinely surprised at this.

Beethoven's Choral Fantasia contains what sounds like an obvious first attempt at 'that tune' from the last movement of the Ninth. And of course, Brahms's 1st Symphony contains his own clear homage to that same tune (last movement).

[vinteuil]

... I see a resemblance between the first of Brahms's two little Sarabandes for piano (composed February 1855) - and Wagner's Ring-Motif. An hommage?

[Roehre]

... I see a resemblance between the first of Brahms's two little Sarabandes for piano (composed February 1855) - and Wagner's Ring-Motif. An hommage?

No, not likely: the sarabandes where not published during Brahms' (and therefore Wagner's) lifteime, let alone in time to be "quoted" by Wagner (and not vice versa).

[Roehre]

There are only so many possible variations of the sequence of notes in a diatonic scale and similarities are bound to occur.

Also, the style and harmonic structure of one composer's composition can be so similar as to suggest a conscious intention to write in another composer's style.

As an example:

There is a sequence of 4 bars in the first movement of Beethoven's 4th piano concerto which sound as if they have been lifted, note for note, from Brahms' 2nd piano concerto; but surely Beethoven's concerto was written first, wasn't it?

So were both of them copying an even earlier composer? Not consciously, I'm sure.

HS

Here Brahms might have been unconsciously influenced by Beethoven, as the former played the latter's 4th concerto quite regularly and is known to have performed it around the time the 2nd concerto was composed.

[MrGongGong]

So yes, a Ph.D thesis in the making

not really a Ph.D as there seems to be no "Thesis" apart from "some music relates to other music" .......... what's the "argument" , the "the history of music is missing this valuable information" ??

[Pabmusic]

The opening of the second movement of Brahms's 3rd Symphony, and the second theme of the overture to Zampa (Herold). They're even scored similarly (clarinet solo over winds). Zampa had received more than 500 performances by the time the symphony came along. The overture's hardly played now, but it used to be very popular indeed.