The five masterpieces that changed the course of musical history

[Pianorak]

I live with tinnitus 24/7, as do several other Board members to my knowledge. . .

Today's Inside Health, R4 3.30pm dealt i.a. with tinnitus - should be available on BBCiPlayer soon.

[amateur51]

Today's Inside Health, R4 3.30pm dealt i.a. with tinnitus - should be available on BBCiPlayer soon.

Coo, cheers Pianorak!

[MrGongGong]

Maybe it would be good to get off the "music wot i like" track
and back to the question ..........?

[vinteuil]

Maybe it would be good to get off the "music wot i like" track
and back to the question ..........?

well, my #20 was a serious attempt on my part to answer the question...

thus -

Perotin Viderunt Omnes
Palestrina Missa Papae Marcelli
Petrucci Odhecaton A
Peri Dafne is lost - so Monteverdi Orfeo
Bach das Wohltemperierte Clavier

[MrGongGong]

Really ?
So have there been no significant changes after ?

[vinteuil]

Really ?
So have there been no significant changes after ?

That's not what I'm saying!

- I was just answering the question, "name five masterpieces that changed the course of musical history". My five certainly did that: there are (of course) a large number of later masterpieces that also changed the course of musical history... <doh! emoticon>

[rauschwerk]

But Odhecaton was a collection of the work of various composers, wasn't it? Which pieces in that collection were so significant?

[vinteuil]

But Odhecaton was a collection of the work of various composers, wasn't it? Which pieces in that collection were so significant?

it was the printing, and what that meant to the subsequent spread of music - as significant in its way as Guido d'Arezzo and the writing down of music (which of course I shd have included in my list... ). Hard to imagine how music would have developed without music printing, and Odhecaton changes everything...

[cloughie]

In about 1971 we went to a John Cage evening at York University. He talked, told jokes, read from his diary and then acknowledged his debt to Satie for the piano piece he was about to perform, telling us that not only was it an imitation of Satie, but also that the title was an imitation of Satie's titles. The piece in question was, of course, "Cheap Imitation".

One of his jokes lasted 4'33" but nobody got it because they couldn't hear it!

[cloughie]

Cage
IMV
the "joke" and "theatrical" performances of 4:33" I have been to miss the point of the piece

it's not a joke
it's not a con
it's not a conspiracy

its as significant a piece as the Eroica

Nonsense, its a extended copy of what comes between the 2nd and 3rd movements.

[rauschwerk]

it was the printing, and what that meant to the subsequent spread of music - as significant in its way as Guido d'Arezzo and the writing down of music (which of course I shd have included in my list... ). Hard to imagine how music would have developed without music printing, and Odhecaton changes everything...

True, but can a publication, as opposed to a composition, be classed as a masterpiece?

There is clearly a great difference in the possible responses to "Five masterpieces..." and "The five masterpieces...". You appear to have chosen the former, others the latter.

[vinteuil]

There is clearly a great difference in the possible responses to "Five masterpieces..." and "The five masterpieces...". You appear to have chosen the former, others the latter.

A very fair point.

[John Skelton]

That's not what I'm saying!

- I was just answering the question, "name five masterpieces that changed the course of musical history". My five certainly did that: there are (of course) a large number of later masterpieces that also changed the course of musical history... <doh! emoticon>

Indeed: which problematises the very notion no less of musical history!

(Unless of course you look closely at the thread title. Something which I had neglected to do ).

[MrGongGong]

I thought that there is an assumption in the question of them being the most significant ?
otherwise one just ends up with a series lists of five pieces that reflect taste rather than significance

(and one does need to consider exactly WHAT is meant by "the course of music history" )

[Pabmusic]

There is clearly a great difference in the possible responses to "Five masterpieces..." and "The five masterpieces...". You appear to have chosen the former, others the latter.

Exactly. The thread is The five masterpieces...(etc). I think it's probably too much to expect reasoned arguments for each choice (and why five anyway, not three, or eight, or twenty-one?) but surely we're looking for five pieces that could fit that very high standard - both 'masterpieces' in their own right, and also of great historical significance. Here's my attempt, though I do feel artificially constrained by the rules:

Monteverdi: l'Orfeo Almost the first opera - certainly the first significant one - and a work that established the ground rules for dramatic music.

J S Bach: das Wohltemperierte Clavier Written specifically to demonstrate the new equal temperament; without equal temperament we could have had no classical, romantic, expressionist or dodecaphonic music (and a lot more besides)

Schubert: The Unfinished Symphony (I won't complicate things by trying to give it a number). This was the first clearly 'romantic' symphony, on a scale undreamed of. Beethoven's Eroica (itself a good candidate for this list) came close, but Schubert's approach is clearly not at all classical. The unusual key ('impossible' for the brass in its day) and unexpected key-relationships (G, with no preparation, for the second subject?) is one of several features that make this more of a ‘romantic’ work than a ‘classical’ one. One cannot imagine Mozart, Haydn or even Beethoven doing this; indeed it may have been its novelty that caused Schubert to stop after two-and-a-bit movements.

Wagner: Tristan und Isolde And not just for 'that chord'. This was a work that liberated harmony (making a virtue of those harmonic side-slips that had previously been a habit of style) - something that continued well into the 20th Century. It also epitomised a conversational style of vocal writing that was to become the norm by the end of the century.

Stravinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps This is one of several 20th-Century candidates, but I think it just nudges ahead because of its elevation of rhythm to become the over-riding feature of the piece.

Of course, others will have different views, equally valid, but here's an attempt...