The five masterpieces that changed the course of musical history

[Mr Pee]

It has structure
It has form
It has sonic content
It has a performance context

The original score had a time signature and was written on manuscript paper

I've got a sheet of manuscript paper and I've just written a time signature on it.

Shall I add that to the list of masterpieces?

[MrGongGong]

I've got a sheet of manuscript paper and I've just written a time signature on it.

Shall I add that to the list of masterpieces?

you are most welcome to stick it wherever you like !
but what YOU think really has very little bearing on it

interesting that for someone who styles himself after Elgar's bike has more to say about the great John Cage than Sir Edward

[rauschwerk]

Regardless of whether 4'33" is or is not music, I would want a lot of convincing that any music has been written, or written differently, because of Cage's piece. What that has done is to generate a great deal of writing. Music makes music history: critiques don't.

[Panjandrum]

Snap
I was going to say the same, (the opening bars of the Tristan prelude are all you need)
but expected the usual idiot(s) to do the whole 4:33" isn't music nonsense again

And, by the same token, the usual idiot will write off The Dream of Gerontius.

[vinteuil]

Perotin Viderunt Omnes
Palestrina Missa Papae Marcelli
Petrucci Odhecaton A
Peri Dafne is lost - so Monteverdi Orfeo
Bach das Wohltemperierte Clavier

[Ferretfancy]

And, by the same token, the usual idiot will write off The Dream of Gerontius.

Happy to oblige, Panjandrum! In what way did The Dream of Gerontius change musical history ?

[3rd Viennese School]

That means my building layout drawings that I create for the NHS counts as music!

Or frozen music.

[MrGongGong]

Regardless of whether 4'33" is or is not music, I would want a lot of convincing that any music has been written, or written differently, because of Cage's piece. What that has done is to generate a great deal of writing. Music makes music history: critiques don't.

4:33" has caused more or less all music after it to be written differently
by focussing on the act (in an active sense !) of LISTENING as the content Cage created a piece that could be seen to have a content that was entirely about context

4:33" (and Cage's other work) have caused all composers to reconsider the sonic content of music in a profound way

liking it or not matters little to it's significance



Oh and I forgot to add that my "problem" with Gerontius is the text which I find impossible to ignore .........

and your drawings could be music ................. go Xenakis I say

[Bryn]

... your drawings could be music ................. go Xenakis I say

And then there's Cardew's Treatise.

[MrGongGong]

and Haubenstock Ramati
and Logothetis
and Bussotti
and Kagel
and .................... etc etc etc

[verismissimo]

Four from me:

Haydn op33 string quartets
Gluck Orfeo ed Euridice
Mascagni Cavalleria rusticana
Bernstein West Side Story

[rauschwerk]

4:33" has caused more or less all music after it to be written differently...

4:33" (and Cage's other work) have caused all composers to reconsider the sonic content of music in a profound way

All composers? All?? I suggest that that is a gross overstatement and I challenge you to produce supporting evidence. (Never mind Cage's other work - that is off topic).

[Bryn]

All composers? All?? I suggest that that is a gross overstatement and I challenge you to produce supporting evidence. (Never mind Cage's other work - that is off topic).

How about "all fellow composers worth their salt"?

[3rd Viennese School]

Cardew.

Looks like a bowling game gone wrong.

3VS

[rauschwerk]

How about "all fellow composers worth their salt"?

That would be making a value judgment, wouldn't it?