Originally posted by rauschwerk
View Post
The five masterpieces that changed the course of musical history
Collapse
X
-
-
-
... for those interested in the question of Bach's keyboard temperament I can much recommend as a good starting point John Barnes's influential essay "Bach's Keyboard Temperament: Internal Evidence from the Well-Tempered Clavier" [Early Music vol 7 no 2, April 1979 pp 236-249]. He shows how Bach 'uses' the characteristics of the different keys in a temperament such as Werckmeister III, through (among other things) an extensive analysis of the number of times Bach uses major thirds (more numerous and more prominent in preludes whose key signatures have few accidentals, and less numerous and less prominent in preludes in keys having many accidentals). The particular astringency or serenity of different chords in different keys is shown to have a musical significance which is lost if the works are played in equal temperament.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by rauschwerk View PostThis thread is heading dangerously in the direction of Anorakville. I agree with Mr GongGong that, highly significant though the Symphonie Fantastique and the Unfinished are, it is the Eroica which is the seminal work of the early 19th century.
Comment
-
-
Roehre
Originally posted by rauschwerk View PostI agree with Mr GongGong that, highly significant though the Symphonie Fantastique and the Unfinished are, it is the Eroica which is the seminal work of the early 19th century.
Schubert's Unfinished and C-major and Berlioz's orchestral works in general obviously had an imprint on music history as well, but not immediately. The same applies obviously to the Mahler symphonies, taking in account how influential these works later were. In that sense these works did not change music history as intended in this thread IMO.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roehre View PostWithout any doubt the Eroica changed music history from the very moment of its premiere.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostDid it really? In what way? Its scale? (Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the proposition. I'd just like to know why you are so very sure, and what or whom it influenced immediately.)
Comment
-
-
Roehre
Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostDid it really? In what way? Its scale? (Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the proposition. I'd just like to know why you are so very sure, and what or whom it influenced immediately.)
Senner's Critical Reception (Nebraska University, at the present 2 vols, a 3rd forthcoming) is a good introduction to how contemporaries looked at Beethoven's works.
Comment
-
Originally posted by MrGongGong View Postthe whole "keys having a character" (D minor being the saddest etc
D major is only regarded as a bright, happy key because trumpets could be used in this key in baroque times.
However, my doubts start to evaporate when I consider that I like very little music in B flat. It neary always sounds heavy and dull. Brahms 2nd Piano Concerto is a notable exception.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostI've always thought this is doubtful.
D major is only regarded as a bright, happy key because trumpets could be used in this key in baroque times.
However, my doubts start to evaporate when I consider that I like very little music in B flat. It neary always sounds heavy and dull. Brahms 2nd Piano Concerto is a notable exception.
My view is that we have the remains of key difference , a bit like having an appendix !
when I played the horn I would have said that Bb, F, Eb were solid keys and something like F# was distant and remote etc but that's really got more to do with the ergonomics of playing than anything to do with the actual keys themselves. However, in the Raga system there really is a difference which gives us an inkling of what we lost when adopting equal temperament , which is not to say that we didn't gain as well.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Roehre View PostAs Haydn remarked, the world wasn't the same anymore after this work. That was recognized as such at that very moment, just as with the premiere of the Sacre some 110 years later. It permeated Europe quicker than other works (by Beethoven or any other composer for that matter) and more periodicals wrote about the event (the first public performance that is, not the privately held premiere) than about any similar one before.
Senner's Critical Reception (Nebraska University, at the present 2 vols, a 3rd forthcoming) is a good introduction to how contemporaries looked at Beethoven's works.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostI almost fell out with one of my oldest friends about this
My view is that we have the remains of key difference , a bit like having an appendix !
when I played the horn I would have said that Bb, F, Eb were solid keys and something like F# was distant and remote etc but that's really got more to do with the ergonomics of playing than anything to do with the actual keys themselves. However, in the Raga system there really is a difference which gives us an inkling of what we lost when adopting equal temperament , which is not to say that we didn't gain as well.
A major = red
D major = green
E major = yellow
E flat major = purple
A flat major and B flat major = shades of blue
F major = blue-grey
B minor = navy blue or black
C minor=white
D flat major = grey-green
B flat minor = dark grey
E minor = red-brown
I can't settle on anything for C major, or any other minor keys.Last edited by Pabmusic; 28-01-12, 00:23.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostI almost fell out with one of my oldest friends about this
My view is that we have the remains of key difference , a bit like having an appendix !
when I played the horn I would have said that Bb, F, Eb were solid keys and something like F# was distant and remote etc but that's really got more to do with the ergonomics of playing than anything to do with the actual keys themselves. However, in the Raga system there really is a difference which gives us an inkling of what we lost when adopting equal temperament , which is not to say that we didn't gain as well.
Originally posted by PabmusicCertain composers were open about associating keys with moods or colours - Rimsky-Korsakov, Scriabin and more...
Comment
-
Comment