The five masterpieces that changed the course of musical history

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  • Mr Pee
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3285

    #16
    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
    It has structure
    It has form
    It has sonic content
    It has a performance context

    The original score had a time signature and was written on manuscript paper
    I've got a sheet of manuscript paper and I've just written a time signature on it.

    Shall I add that to the list of masterpieces?
    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

    Mark Twain.

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    • MrGongGong
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 18357

      #17
      Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
      I've got a sheet of manuscript paper and I've just written a time signature on it.

      Shall I add that to the list of masterpieces?
      you are most welcome to stick it wherever you like !
      but what YOU think really has very little bearing on it

      interesting that for someone who styles himself after Elgar's bike has more to say about the great John Cage than Sir Edward

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      • rauschwerk
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 1480

        #18
        Regardless of whether 4'33" is or is not music, I would want a lot of convincing that any music has been written, or written differently, because of Cage's piece. What that has done is to generate a great deal of writing. Music makes music history: critiques don't.

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        • Panjandrum

          #19
          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
          Snap
          I was going to say the same, (the opening bars of the Tristan prelude are all you need)
          but expected the usual idiot(s) to do the whole 4:33" isn't music nonsense again
          And, by the same token, the usual idiot will write off The Dream of Gerontius.

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          • vinteuil
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 12797

            #20
            Perotin Viderunt Omnes
            Palestrina Missa Papae Marcelli
            Petrucci Odhecaton A
            Peri Dafne is lost - so Monteverdi Orfeo
            Bach das Wohltemperierte Clavier

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            • Ferretfancy
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 3487

              #21
              Originally posted by Panjandrum View Post
              And, by the same token, the usual idiot will write off The Dream of Gerontius.
              Happy to oblige, Panjandrum! In what way did The Dream of Gerontius change musical history ?

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              • 3rd Viennese School

                #22
                That means my building layout drawings that I create for the NHS counts as music!

                Or frozen music.

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                • MrGongGong
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 18357

                  #23
                  Originally posted by rauschwerk View Post
                  Regardless of whether 4'33" is or is not music, I would want a lot of convincing that any music has been written, or written differently, because of Cage's piece. What that has done is to generate a great deal of writing. Music makes music history: critiques don't.
                  4:33" has caused more or less all music after it to be written differently
                  by focussing on the act (in an active sense !) of LISTENING as the content Cage created a piece that could be seen to have a content that was entirely about context

                  4:33" (and Cage's other work) have caused all composers to reconsider the sonic content of music in a profound way

                  liking it or not matters little to it's significance



                  Oh and I forgot to add that my "problem" with Gerontius is the text which I find impossible to ignore .........

                  and your drawings could be music ................. go Xenakis I say

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                  • Bryn
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 24688

                    #24
                    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                    ... your drawings could be music ................. go Xenakis I say
                    And then there's Cardew's Treatise.

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                    • MrGongGong
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 18357

                      #25
                      and Haubenstock Ramati
                      and Logothetis
                      and Bussotti
                      and Kagel
                      and .................... etc etc etc

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                      • verismissimo
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 2957

                        #26
                        Four from me:

                        Haydn op33 string quartets
                        Gluck Orfeo ed Euridice
                        Mascagni Cavalleria rusticana
                        Bernstein West Side Story

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                        • rauschwerk
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 1480

                          #27
                          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                          4:33" has caused more or less all music after it to be written differently...

                          4:33" (and Cage's other work) have caused all composers to reconsider the sonic content of music in a profound way
                          All composers? All?? I suggest that that is a gross overstatement and I challenge you to produce supporting evidence. (Never mind Cage's other work - that is off topic).

                          Comment

                          • Bryn
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 24688

                            #28
                            Originally posted by rauschwerk View Post
                            All composers? All?? I suggest that that is a gross overstatement and I challenge you to produce supporting evidence. (Never mind Cage's other work - that is off topic).
                            How about "all fellow composers worth their salt"?

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                            • 3rd Viennese School

                              #29
                              Cardew.

                              Looks like a bowling game gone wrong.

                              3VS

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                              • rauschwerk
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1480

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                                How about "all fellow composers worth their salt"?
                                That would be making a value judgment, wouldn't it?

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