Not good pieces by good composers

[teamsaint]

With the possible exception of no.8 (the one of which Mendelssohn made a version with winds) I agree.
But FMB didn't publish them.

A composer with hardly any weaknesses in his output (as he destroyed everything which he thought was under par) nevertheless published one: Brahms' Triumphlied op.55 for choir and orchestra, celebrating the unity of Germany under Bismarck, 1871. IMO a handelian misconception, musically and certainly textually.

Well I will give no 8 another go. As I suggested, no slur intended on FMB, whose music is, in general, an absolute joy !!

And equally, will give the Brahms a miss.
On the subject of Brahms, can't really get on with the Piano sonatas. Perhaps I am listening all wrong ?!

[cloughie]

the Mendelssohn string symphonies.
I know he was very young, but i just cannot understand what some people see in them. They may be a real achievement for one so young, but they are a dull old listen in my view.

The answer is to adopt the Johnny Cash approach - One piece at a time.

[LeMartinPecheur]

On the subject of Brahms, can't really get on with the Piano sonatas. Perhaps I am listening all wrong ?!

Start with #3 and work backwards? - the 3rd for me has some of his most gorgeous music, esp the 2nd movt.

[3rd Viennese School]

Tchaikovsky.

not neglect as in Prokofiev 6, but most non musical people seem to know Peter for the usual ballets (he only wrote 3!) and not his better music, the darker symphonies, some of the overtures etc.

I'm not on about educated listeners here by the way!

3VS

[teamsaint]

Start with #3 and work backwards? - the 3rd for me has some of his most gorgeous music, esp the 2nd movt.

Had a look, but can't find any recordings of #3 played backwards !!!

Anyway,i played an orthodox forward version instead, and it turns out you are right. Great stuff, made for a really good drive to Bath this morning.

Cheers !!

[Roehre]

Chopin: piano trio op.8 and cello sonata op.65

[Op. XXXIX]

Chopin: piano trio op.8 and cello sonata op.65

Too often they sound like weakly accompanied piano concertos.

[Ferretfancy]

Too often they sound like weakly accompanied piano concertos.

You mean as boring as Chopin's own piano concertos ? ( I do own good versions of them, but they really are awful waffle ! )

[cloughie]

You mean as boring as Chopin's own piano concertos ? ( I do own good versions of them, but they really are awful waffle ! )

I don't mind the Concerti, but I'm not that keen on most of his solo piano works - particularly in large doses!

[Roehre]

You mean as boring as Chopin's own piano concertos ? ( I do own good versions of them, but they really are awful waffle ! )

With which assessment I only can agree

[Panjandrum]

You mean as boring as Chopin's own piano concertos ? ( I do own good versions of them, but they really are awful waffle ! )

Love them both - real young man's music, particularly the effervescent finales. You must have forgotten what it's like to be young ferret!

[Suffolkcoastal]

I quite like the E minor Concerto, which I don't think is that bad a piece either. The F minor though bores me rigid, especially the slow movement, endless figuration and no substance. Strangely it tends to be the F minor that gets performed and broadcast more often these days.

[Roehre]

I quite like the E minor Concerto, which I don't think is that bad a piece either. The F minor though bores me rigid, especially the slow movement, endless figuration and no substance. Strangely it tends to be the F minor that gets performed and broadcast more often these days.

I like no.1 definitely as well. It is the later of the two. What we now know as the second concerto was composed before the first, but Chopin was forced to re-compose the piece as he lost the score somewhere.
The orchestral accompaniment of the 2nd mvt can be omitted without any loss of its musical contents, and was quite regularly played in this form, and I do recall even some recordings of it as stand-alone piano piece.
I prefer this concerto's piano quintet version, as in that way Chopin at least succeeded in "covering up" some of his deficiencies in orchestral writing.

[Ferretfancy]

Love them both - real young man's music, particularly the effervescent finales. You must have forgotten what it's like to be young ferret!

Well, thanks Panjandrum! It's been a while admittedly, but I do still have a few youthful enthusiasms left!

I think my problem with the Chopin concertos is that they seem such routine stuff, and that's baffling when the solo piano works are so great.

[Chris Newman]

You mean as boring as Chopin's own piano concertos ? ( I do own good versions of them, but they really are awful waffle ! )

Chopin's solo piano works in the hands of say Peter Katin or Artur Rubinstein are absolute bliss. They sound like the ideal music for the piano.

Sadly, the concertos are worse than waffle (Ferretfancy is too kind). No 1 opens orchestrally as if we will hear grand robust stuff (Weber and Auber spring to mind as contemporaries: don't mention LvB!) but as soon as the piano comes in the piece goes into terminal decline. No 2 never even gets that far, falling flat at the beginning.