Not good pieces by good composers

[Jonathan]

Just a thought - everyone has off days, even composers, so it's probable that not everything is of equal quality throughout their output.
(I rather like the Tchaikovsky piano sonatas, by the way...)

[cloughie]

Quite agree. I don't think the vibrato is especially implicit, although it's probably nearer to what Elgar had in mind. One thing about Sea Pictures is that it's stated to be for contralto (Clara Butt gave the premiere, dressed as a mermaid) but it lies more comfortably for mezzo-soprano. Perhaps this means that many contraltos strain a little, and that has an effect on vibrato. But I'm no singer.

The version I enjoy most is Yvonne Minton with Barenboim and the LPO. I know that Barenboim got a bit of stick around that time for false portamento in the Symphonies but SP and both his VCs with Perlman and Zukerman are fine. Also I think preferable to the Janet Baker is the live Barbirolli SP with Kirstin Meyer.

[amateur51]

Also I think preferable to the Janet Baker is the live Barbirolli SP with Sabine Meyer.

I think you mean Kirstin Meyer, cloughie

[cloughie]

I think you mean Kirstin Meyer, cloughie

Thanks Am51, indeed I do, and I have amended to read so.

[Ferretfancy]

Mention of Clara Butt reminds me of another statuesque contralto, Gladys Ripley, who seems forgotten today. She seemed to me to be in every choral work I ever heard back in the late 40s and early 50s, and I'm pretty sure she recorded Sea Pictures.

[Parry1912]

Just to complete the Clara Butt picture: she was 6' 2" tall!

Which, by coincidence, is the same height as Maria Sharapova!

[Norfolk Born]

Which, by coincidence, is the same height as Maria Sharapova!

But which is/was the louder?

[MrGongGong]

Which, by coincidence, is the same height as Maria Sharapova!

Is it just me or is there something a little creepy in someone knowing that ????

[Mr Pee]

Which, by coincidence, is the same height as Maria Sharapova!

And to further complete the Clara Butt picture, here's a picture:-



And just so that we can make a proper comparison, here's a picture of Maria Sharapova:-

[MrGongGong]

Even more so

[EdgeleyRob]

A fine pair. (of pictures!)

[Roehre]

Just a thought - everyone has off days, even composers, so it's probable that not everything is of equal quality throughout their output.
(I rather like the Tchaikovsky piano sonatas, by the way...)

Nice thought, but most compositions (though e.g. some Schubert songs and Shostakovich-arrangements excluded) took more than a day to be conceived and composed.

In that respect it is a sign that the composition of the Beethoven works mentioned earlier did not leave a hugh trace of sketches. From Wellington's Sieg mainly sketches regarding the fugatos and from the cantate op.136 only some skeches regarding the solo-violin cum soprano-solo and a couple of choral entries are known. This explains quite a lot of the sub-standard quality of these works: they were more or less composed in one go as it were, without much contemplation.

Looking carefully at the 1812 we find a big gap between the pomposity of some parts of the work and the fine construction of it. From the technical point of view it really is a fine piece, IMO certainly in another league than e.g. the finale of Tchaikovsky 5 (a piece which, for all its faults, I unreservedly love, btw).

Btw, IMO the Fantasy for piano and orchestra op.56 deserves to be mentioned in the thread more than either 1812 or the piano sonata op.37.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Looking carefully at the 1812 we find a big gap between the pomposity of some parts of the work and the fine construction of it. From the technical point of view it really is a fine piece,

It is indeed well constructed. Altogether a fine work. The fact that most public performances go overboard with the fireworks should not detract from its qualities.

[jayne lee wilson]

I would refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some messages ago...(no.31)

I'm surprised listeners have trouble with the Reformation Symphony, it's a better piece than no.1, and FMB didn't suppress that - but (as no.2 remember) it is more ambitious yes, and his standards, as Roehre intimates, were high and highly personal from the start... try Colin Davis, where the sonority of the Staatskapelle is richly rewarding. Peter Maag in Madrid (coupled with no.1) is excellent too.

Hans Keller was a great Mendelssohnian of course and often made the very point Parry 1912 made about listeners who superficially dismissed FMB as lacking profundity.

IMO there is a lot of truth in this observation.
As composer Mendelssohn (with Schubert for that matter, btw) was a real prodigy in that sense that his compositions nearly from the start ARE unmistakingly Mendelssohn (something which cannot be said of Mozart's early works I'm afraid).

The relatively lighthearted works -as e.g. the Misummernightdream overture- and sunny ones like the octet (with an example of one of those remarkable Mendelsohnian scherzos) or the much later violin concerto stick to minds as the "Real" Mendelssohn.
But his string quartets show a digesting of Beethoven's late quartets (Beethoven op.127 influenced Mendelssohn's op.12 considerably) and the development of a much more mature and in depth style in e.g. the string quartet (-pieces) opp. 80 and especially op.81.
There are many other dramatic works and moments in his output - but many completely unknown to a wider public.
I do think as well, that the orchestral output of his is more "homogenous" in its atmospheres and moods than the IMO much more widely ranged chamber music.

As far as the Reformation-symphony is concerned, I am afraid that IMO in this form it is one of Mendelssohn's weaker works. But here we have to keep in mind, that he himself did not publish the work, as his self-criticism told him it needed a severe revision - which his very untimely death prevented.

[Roehre]

JLW, I haven't got any problem with the Reformation.

That doesn't mean that I don't think it belongs among the lesser successful work of FMB, despite the rich details you rightly mention.

And that's why I do think mentioning the Reformation in this thread is justified.

Thinking of the Symphony's relative position within FMB's output however, mentioning the 2nd piano concerto would be more obvious (certainly if compared with the 1st concerto, which in itself is not an example of a profound concerto either IMO)