Shostakovich Symphonies

[amateur51]

The 5th the weakest? Lol. Who's trying to be a bit too clever here, I wonder?

Not something you could ever be accused of, Simon

So what would be your candidate for the weakest of Shostkovich's symphonies, Simon?

With reasons, please

[Auferstehen2]

Not something you could ever be accused of, Simon

So what would be your candidate for the weakest of Shostkovich's symphonies, Simon?

With reasons, please

As I said in my opening post, I've only currently got five of his symphonies. No. 1 is now well known and quite liked. Now that the 'Pool & Spurs have dropped more points, I'm about to give the 5th the very first hearing.

Sorry folks, I don't mean to be grouchy, but I really don't want to be told that the 5th may be his weakest - rather impressionable at this stage of my musical development of this composer.

Mario

[Petrushka]

As I said in my opening post, I've only currently got five of his symphonies. No. 1 is now well known and quite liked. Now that the 'Pool & Spurs have dropped more points, I'm about to give the 5th the very first hearing.

Sorry folks, I don't mean to be grouchy, but I really don't want to be told that the 5th may be his weakest - rather impressionable at this stage of my musical development of this composer.

Mario

Take no notice, Mario! To say the 5th is the weakest of the DSCH symphonies is one of the most laughable pieces of nonsense I've ever read on these boards and there's no shortage of competition.

I will never forget the first time I heard the 5th. It was April 1975 and the recording was the USSR State SO under Maxim Shostakovich and it blew my socks off! I was so thrilled that I immediately played it again and had my socks blown off a second time! From that moment on I knew, as you do, that Shostakovich was going to be one of the most vitally important things in my life. And so it has proved.

[Simon]

Take no notice, Mario! To say the 5th is the weakest of the DSCH symphonies is one of the most laughable pieces of nonsense I've ever read on these boards and there's no shortage of competition.

Good to agree.

It's the most popular, I think, so that's probably why some people like to decry it - it's a psychological thing, as it enables them to pretend that they are somehow "above" popular things and therefore "superior" to the mass of popular opinion.

Coincidentally, my own first hearing of it was from the same recording as Petrushka, conducted by his son. I've heard a lot of versions since, including a couple at live concerts, but I don't think I've heard one that I've enjoyed more. I love Shostakovitch's works, even the less beautiful and less traditionally harmonious ones. The skill, the musicianship, the craftsmanship, the sincerity and the honesty is always there, even though perhaps a couple of the symphonies aren't at his usual level of interest for whatever reason. And neither were Beethoven's, of course, nor anyone else's - so that's normal: not every composition is a masterpiece. But Shost 5 certainly is, and don't let any poser try to tell you differently. I hope that you may enjoy it for as long as you live!

[ahinton]

The 5th the weakest? Lol. Who's trying to be a bit too clever here, I wonder?

I must apologise and retract this; I must have been half asleep when I wrote that. The symphony that I had in mind as DSCH's weakest is the other one in the same key, i.e. no. 12, not no. 5 which, whilst far from his best, contains some wonderful music. I trust that you and others who must be wondering what on earth I was talking about can accept that apology in the spirit in which I mean it.

[Simon]

Credit to you for your honesty, AH. You were in for some stick there, you know! I was, actually, gobsmacked to read what you wrote, as though we don't always (even often) agree I never think of you as less than sincere.

Having said that, I actually have heard and read elsewhere - and I think maybe even on the old boards some years ago - comments like your erroneous one about the 5th, from silly people!

[Auferstehen2]

Delighted to see things calming down, thanks to some excellent postings from such erudite contributors as ah, Simon and Petrushka, whose musical knowledge clearly surpasses mine.

I too must apologise for my silly little rant, started when, as a Man Utd supporter, saw the Pool and Spurs drop points. I was wrong to make those comments. This thread does not belong to me and individuals must be allowed the freedom to say anything they want.

Apologies, but now I really must be allowed to get to know the 5^th.

Best wishes,

Mario

[Dave2002]

The particular trailer that appeared this morning had a very ponderous and slow few bars from the opening of the finale of the fifth, which segued into a Rachmaninov piano concerto,so I doubt if this would have blown anyone away,

Not sure if you and I heard the same thing - probably. I think there is a case to be made (and a good one) for playing parts of the finale vey deliberately and slowly. I have a feeling that Mravinsky may have played it that way, particularly in the closing sequences. To do it that way the beat has to be absolutely rock steady.

On the other hand I have also enjoyed performances with greater flexibility, probably by the likes of Rozhdestvensky (his Washington SO account has real drive), Ancerl etc. There's often more than one way of playing a piece. I'd like to hear a modern performance of the finale of the 5th with very steady tempi, though with enough interest elsewhere for it not to become boring. Ponderous might be OK though, in its place.

[Nick Armstrong]

silly little rant

I wouldn't worry, Mario, there's a lot of it about!

Not all of it as perverse as branding the 5th as DSCH's weakest, though!!

[3rd Viennese School]

I wouldnt say its the weakest but no.5 is quite disapointing.
Except for that wonderful first mvt. And bits of mvt 2.
But it all goes downhill for me after that. The slow mvt is boring and long or me (he's already done a lot of slow music in mvt 1!).
The start of the finale is okay then all downhill again.

Using the same sort of formular he did a far better job in no.8 and it works in this one!

As for 12,well, it wasn't intended to be a main symphony. And 3 is from his experimental period so you could forgive these ones.
They are both good fun though!

3VS

[Auferstehen2]

Just finished my first hearing of the 5th Symphony. That means I'm now an expert on Shostakovich and that I know what I'm talking about.

Extraordinary, simply extraordinary. The irony of that climax at the end is of course lost on me presently, but I don't care. I love it!

(Sorry 3VS, I know that makes me a pleb.)

Mario

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

(Sorry 3VS, I know that makes me a pleb.)

Of course it doesn't, Mario.





It's supporting the wrong Manchester team that does that!

[amateur51]

Just finished my first hearing of the 5th Symphony. That means I'm now an expert on Shostakovich and that I know what I'm talking about.

Extraordinary, simply extraordinary. The irony of that climax at the end is of course lost on me presently, but I don't care. I love it!

(Sorry 3VS, I know that makes me a pleb.)

Mario

I''m so glad that you enjoyed it, Auferstehen and don't worry if you think you didn't 'get' part of it. Try and listen to a variety of performances - there are masses available on CD and DVD and of course on Spotify & youtube. On youtube you can find 'live' performances by Bernstein and Mravinsky, for example; same music, very different interpretations

Above all, enjoy!

Later: And of course try to get to a live performance on one of your trips over for some football match or other Unless your audio equipment is top notch and your neighbours are away, nothing beats experiencing a piece 'live'.

[Bryn]

I had hoped that the Discovering Music programme in which Gerard McBurney illustrated some of his research into thematic material used in the Fifth would be available online. However, what at first seemed to be a link to such on this page, turned out to lead to a 404 error report. If anyone here has access to that programme ... .

[Auferstehen2]

Grateful to you Bryn (as ever).

Wonders never cease. Your link did indeed work for me (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/shostakovich/).

Will start reading voraciously.

Thank you,

Mario