Shostakovich Symphonies

[3rd Viennese School]

DSCH the 15 symphonies

Some are quotes, could some be by accident?
Some are just things that remind me or are similar to the symphonies.

Mvt 1 The notes of the finale of no.6 is sort of there, at the start and the end of mvt 1.
No.4 development gallop is definitely there in the development of this mvt. And the string quartet no.3.

Mvt 2 The woodblock from no.13 and 14 is there.

There are three notes at the end of mvt 2 that are definitely the three notes in the development of no.8 where it starts getting louder. Could be coincidence?


Mvt 3 DSCH is there, along with No.9 in the trio.

Mvt 4 No.5 slow mvt climax. Sound like those notes before the quote of no.7, possibly jumbled around a bit. No.7 is obviously deliberate.


To me, the symphony does seem to start with a reference to Cello Concerto no.1 and ending with a reference to Cello concerto no.2


Yes, no.1,2,11 might just be wishful thinking. Some of you message boarders out there might know much better quotes in this symphony.

In thinking about this I completely missed the fact that there are 3 12 note rows.
2nd subject of mvt 1and the start of mvt 3 was pointed out to me by someone here. I only knew the mvt 2 one prior to this.

Proves that there is a lot more going on in this symphony that you may think!

3VS

[Petrushka]

DSCH the 15 symphonies

Some are quotes, could some be by accident?
Some are just things that remind me or are similar to the symphonies.

Mvt 1 The notes of the finale of no.6 is sort of there, at the start and the end of mvt 1.
No.4 development gallop is definitely there in the development of this mvt. And the string quartet no.3.

Mvt 2 The woodblock from no.13 and 14 is there.

There are three notes at the end of mvt 2 that are definitely the three notes in the development of no.8 where it starts getting louder. Could be coincidence?


Mvt 3 DSCH is there, along with No.9 in the trio.

Mvt 4 No.5 slow mvt climax. Sound like those notes before the quote of no.7, possibly jumbled around a bit. No.7 is obviously deliberate.


To me, the symphony does seem to start with a reference to Cello Concerto no.1 and ending with a reference to Cello concerto no.2


Yes, no.1,2,11 might just be wishful thinking. Some of you message boarders out there might know much better quotes in this symphony.

In thinking about this I completely missed the fact that there are 3 12 note rows.
2nd subject of mvt 1and the start of mvt 3 was pointed out to me by someone here. I only knew the mvt 2 one prior to this.

Proves that there is a lot more going on in this symphony that you may think!

3VS

Thanks once again, 3VS. Agree that there is much, much more to this symphony than meets the eye. It deserves really serious analysis.

[Chris Newman]

I listened to Peterenko's No 7 the other evening and was very much impressed, so much so that I decided to listen again tonight. This time I heard the first half of the concert which a visitor prevented me from hearing first time round. The Adams was, as usual, welcome. The Qigang Chen?: maybe it is the cross-cultural elements at work but it sounded almost 1930's/40s. I loved it, was charmed by it but it seemed at first like Elgar meets Messiaen then I got the feeling is that it was like Lambert, Walton, Grainger or even Rawsthorne. Any other thoughts? Now back to the Shostakovich.....

[3rd Viennese School]

This must also be wishful thinking.

In the newspaper article announcing DSCH's death in 1975 it says that he had completed the first 2 mvts of Symphony no.16.
Never heard any more on this.
Any thoughts anyone?

3VS

[Roehre]

In the newspaper article announcing DSCH's death in 1975 it says that he had completed the first 2 mvts of Symphony no.16.
Never heard any more on this.
Any thoughts anyone?
3VS

This is one of the persistent rumours re unpublished/unfinished works in DSCH's drawers at the time of his death.
Given the fact that in de Soviet Union plagiarism or straightforward theft of compositions was not unknown, it is a possibillity that these movements either have vanished or are part of another composer's symphonic work.
But obviously it is all conjecture.

[cloughie]

I listened to Peterenko's No 7 the other evening and was very much impressed, so much so that I decided to listen again tonight. This time I heard the first half of the concert which a visitor prevented me from hearing first time round. The Adams was, as usual, welcome. The Qigang Chen?: maybe it is the cross-cultural elements at work but it sounded almost 1930's/40s. I loved it, was charmed by it but it seemed at first like Elgar meets Messiaen then I got the feeling is that it was like Lambert, Walton, Grainger or even Rawsthorne. Any other thoughts? Now back to the Shostakovich.....

My description on #122 'sounded to me like Delius/Ravel fusion with a Chinese accent' cf your Elgar meets Messiaen points in similar directions!

[Karafan]

Incidentally, I found the packaging flimsy too, but more amusingly eccentric than anything else!

Agreed, Jayne! I have had chocolate eclairs presented in more substantial packaging than the Melodiya set. Thankfully the contents far outshine their minimal *ahem* packaging....


K.

[jayne lee wilson]

I was in the RLPO hall for Sunday's performance and it's still hard to write about such an intense experience. I can but concur with Simon's finely-written review - there was another standing ovation, and what a relief to leap to one's feet - but I'm sorry to say I was too involved at the end to think about or notice those last cymbal clashes.

It was certainly very beautifully and precisely played, with noticeably more control over dynamic levels than the 10/2007 performance, which latter threatened to burst your eardrums even before the first movement climax! Petrenko even committed a similar error at that time in the Manfred Symphony, only controlling things properly in the last movement - evidently he was still learning how to "play out" into the hall.

Of the 15 live Shostakovich 7s I can remember attending (conductors including Gergiev, Masur, Jurowski, Wigglesworth, Sinaisky, Downes etc) only the multiple Downes/BBCPO performances surpassed this one.

The tempi were on the steady side, but it certainly didn't feel slow at the time. Admittedly, a broadcast can leave a very different impression. Steadiness was a feature in common with Downes' interpretation.

The key (all IMO obviously) to the infamous march in Mvt 1 isn't to hurtle through it at breakneck speed (the resort of many, particularly habitual speed-merchant Jarvi snr - so fast on his Chandos/RSNO recording that the 3 snare drummers ultimately fall over themselves in the headlong rush). Downes and Petrenko both took/take a similar approach - an implacably steady tempo with great attention to phrasing, note-lengths, emphasis and timbre. This makes it much more interesting, self-satirising and ultimately horrifying than the usual undifferentiated bash-through.

Other conductors try to deal with the longeurs of the inner movements (particularly II) by adopting a relatively brisk tempo and getting them over with. While the more probing approach of Downes and Petrenko doesn't quite succeed in dispelling the impression that some editing wouldn't have hurt, I still find fewer passages where my attention wanders.

Likewise, the very ending. No amount of brass (often inadequately blasted out anyway) can make up for over-brisk blandness. In similar vein to the exceptionally slow and grand apotheoisis to the live LPO/Tennstedt Mahler 2, the blazing slow grandeur is justified in Downes and Petrenko by being at the end of an arc encompassing all that has come before.

[As a minor detail which many perhaps wouldn't notice, I don't understand why the last few (fff) cymbal clashes were left out by the RLPO, apparently deliberately, especially as with timps +7 there should have been one player with nothing to do - unless they had 4 rather than 3 snare drums on the last chord. I wasn't looking as I didn't want to be distracted from watching the brass blowing their collective lungs out and Neil Hitt living up to his name on timps! An minor but odd blemish...]

The Liverpool audience is rather more in the habit of standing ovations than most - but this time I thought it justified and joined in. As a live performance, one to remember.

[BBMmk2]

Has he recorded the 7th? I have the Manfred cd, very good that, imo.

Andrew Litton is very good in this repertoire to.

[Bax-of-Delights]

There is an annoying promo advert airing on R3 at the moment (heard it twice now in the space of 2 hours this Sunday morning) that states without qualification that the 5th to be played on Wednesday is DSCH's "most celebrated".

Now, without going into the semantics of what "celebrated" may mean - I suspect this is an example of the hype-speak now employed by R3 in a slavish attempt to mirror CFM - do others feel the 5th is THE "most celebrated"?

I don't.

[Petrushka]

There is an annoying promo advert airing on R3 at the moment (heard it twice now in the space of 2 hours this Sunday morning) that states without qualification that the 5th to be played on Wednesday is DSCH's "most celebrated".

Now, without going into the semantics of what "celebrated" may mean - I suspect this is an example of the hype-speak now employed by R3 in a slavish attempt to mirror CFM - do others feel the 5th is THE "most celebrated"?

I don't.

I think by common consent the 5th is certainly Shostakovich's most popular symphony (if that's what is meant here by celebrated) and with good reason. Whether it is his best is a matter of opinion. The 5th is the one that makes the most immediate impact on first hearing as I well remember from my own first hearing back in 1975 when it completely blew me away. That impact is still there after the zillionth hearing and if Shostakovich had written nothing else this piece alone would have assured him immortality.

The hyper-speak does grate but if it makes just one person tune in and be blown away like I was all those years ago it will have achieved something.

[Ferretfancy]

The particular trailer that appeared this morning had a very ponderous and slow few bars from the opening of the finale of the fifth, which segued into a Rachmaninov piano concerto,so I doubt if this would have blown anyone away, it was just a few second's worth of music with the usual boastful sounding chat, In other words, produced in a hole somewhere in BH or its environs by a bunch of ignoramuses.
This is all produced at considerable cost,but who is it aimed at ? It is almost universally disliked by R3 regulars, so it must be aimed at newcomers, but why should they switch on to R3 in the first place?

I've just been reading a cry of woe from Eva Wiseman in today's Observer Magazine, deploring the fact that her TV has broken down, so she will miss the X Factor and Take Me Out. Never mind though,she can always follow it on Twitter, and that's more fun than the show itself! I despair, we are indeed a beleagured band.

[Stanfordian]

I remain a firm admirer of the Shostakovich 5th Symphony no matter how many times that I hear it. I also think that the 1st Symphony is a wonderful work for a student. Vasily Petrenko told me that there was little original Shostakovich’s in his 1st. It was mainly derivative as he had yet to find his own voice as a composer. The loud No. 3 is better than I originally thought after reassessing it with Petrenko's latest recording with his RLPO on Naxos. I like to hear the much criticized No. 7 every now and then; it’s a work with wonderful power. No. 15 has always fascinated me. With all those quotations I would love to know what the composer was thinking when he wrote it. As an interpreter I like Semyon Bychkov cycle with the WDR Sinfonie-Orchester, Cologne and the Berlin Philharmonic. I also like Petrenko’s series with the RLPO on Naxos. Of the longer established cycles I cut my teeth with Haitink’s Shostakovich cycle with the Concertgebouw Orchestra and London Philharmonic Orchestra on Decca. I think Bernstein’s version of the Fifth with the NYPO (pub. 1960) is wonderfully exciting yet quirky at the same time.

[Petrushka]

The 2006 re-mastered Kondrashin set arrived this morning after being on order from MDT for a while (out of stock). I've just played the 1st & 10th Symphonies and first inpressions are of a much better, detailed sound than was available on the old set and you get the 2nd VC with Oistrach, 'The Execution of Stepan Razin' (never heard this piece at all), The symphonic poem, October, and the cantata, 'The Sun is Shining Over Our Motherland' (never heard this either).

Now how to dispose of the huge door-stopper of a box that was the original CD incarnation...??

[Simon]

4 to me is his greatest achievement of all [...] I sometimes wonder if he'd been somewhat cowed by this experience, given the the symphony that he wrote next is surely the weakest of the lot!

The 5th the weakest? Lol. Who's trying to be a bit too clever here, I wonder?