Shostakovich Symphonies

[BBMmk2]

thank you for that post JLW.

I cant remember whether the Bartok was before the DS?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I cant remember whether the Bartok was before the DS?

Leningrad Symphony written 1941, first performed 1942 (in USSR, GB and USA, the latter on an NBC broadcast conducted by Toscanini)
Concerto for Orchestra written and premiered 1943 (in USA where BB was living - well, "dying" to be precise - so heard Toscanini broadcast[?])

[3rd Viennese School]

"I agree (the circus music is at the start of No 15 whereas it's the last movement of no 6)... except not all of the rest of 15 is dark and depressing! The main theme of the last movement! the ending! Neither dark nor depressing! "

Well, maybe not all of it. the ending is luminous, mvt 3 is weird. Maybe I meant the rest of it, well mvt 2 and 4 are serious in comparison to mvt 1 and mvt 3 is weird (what a tune! The 12 note thing!)
My mate noticed though that the symphony never really cheers up after mvt 1. But he's into Elvis so what would he know?

P.S. Ive spotted quite a few symphony quotations. I will jot a few down later...

3VS

[Petrushka]

The apprehension is entirely due to the possibility of extreme emotional and aural responses!

Yes Bryn, I did indeed hear Edward Downes conduct the "Leningrad" several times; it was his performances (one of which - 1994 I think, which I taped off air, the first recording I ever had of it) that inspired my deep love of the piece.

I too was at the 5 October 2006 Petrenko performance that Simon B recalls. It was devastating. As we took our seats in the circle, I looked straight across at the top row of the choir stalls and saw those ten extra players of the heavy brass, their instruments glinting, like a firing squad polishing their guns before an execution... "uh-oh..." I thought.

As Petrushka said about his numinous moments, at the height of the 1st movement you are in the middle of a tornado... the climax is so overwhelming - it is surely, after all the relentless, mechanistic horror of the march, an anguished requiem for the Russian dead.

I've never had a problem with the piece; apart from its sheer impact ("apart from...?" As if...) it seems to me one of his most melodically inspired (OK, finale a little less so) and structurally well-integrated. I kept away from it when I was discovering DSCH in the 70s just because of all the ill-informed critical comments about it. What a shock I got later.

I also feel that Bartok's parody of the 1st movement in his Concerto for Orchestra was misconceived. Did he fail to see the irony and mockery of militaristic power and bombast in the music itself? Talk about "taking out of context"...

I got to know the Leningrad from the Berglund recording and that still sounds wonderful nearly 40 years later. As I've said before, I could never understand the nonsense spouted by critics on so much of Shostakovich because it was so at odds with the way I heard the music and nowhere was this as true as with the Leningrad.

Re the Bartok quote: I also think that Bartok is sending up a tune from Lehar's Merry Widow. Not only that I think that Shostakovich was parodying the same tune in what was a family in-joke concerning his son, Maxim ('Let's go to Maxim's'). Not sure but I think it was Gerard McBurney who pointed this out.

[gurnemanz]

Has anyone catalogued all the quotations in the 15th? I know that Gerard McBurney has pointed out that Shostakovich quotes from every one of his symphonies but I can't manage to spot more than one or two and while the Wagner and Rossini quotes are obvious I'd like to have a full timed list of them all. My feeling is that there are more buried away than we know eg Mussorgsky or popular songs.

Anyone?

I would also love to have such a catalogue. 15 will always be special for me, obviously because it is his last symphonic statement with all its back-references, quotes and enigmas, but also because it is the only symphony of his which I heard live when the great man was still actually still alive, i.e. one of my contemporaries (I was 23, he was 66). It was an unforgettable performance in Leipzig in 1972 (coupled with a Bach keyboard concerto) under the the redoubtable, Herbert Kegel, which was, I believe, the East German première of the work.

[Flosshilde]

Auferstehn, I don't know if you can get programmes on iPlayer in Malta, but you might be interested in tonight's concert - a perfromance of the 7th symphony, preceeded by an interval talk on it.

If you can't use iPlayer, please accept my apologies for dangling this morsel in front of you when it's inaccessible.

[Auferstehen2]

Flosshilde,

I could not be grateful to you if I tried! I can indeed access iPlayer (AND I have 7 days left) to get to know this work, not a note of which I know of course. Question is though, since I'm unable to answer it, how did Petrenko do, good or bad?

Flosshilde, if you and your other half, ever visit this island, a glass of wine etc.

Best wishes,

Mario

[Nick Armstrong]

I could not be grateful to you if I tried!

.....more grateful ???

[Auferstehen2]

Aaaaarrrghhhhhh!

Drat, double drat and even triple drat!

Thanks Caliban! Apologies Flosshilde, but I think you know what I meant.

Mario

[Flosshilde]

Aaaaarrrghhhhhh!

Drat, double drat and even triple drat!

Thanks Caliban! Apologies Flosshilde, but I think you know what I meant.

Mario

I did, Mario, I did. & apologies to you for mis-spelling your Board name.

A return visit to Malta is well over-due.

I'm afraid I can't comment on the technical merits of the performance, & as it's the first time I have heard the work I can't say if it was good in other ways (I'm not sure if the emotional power of a performance neccessarily comes over in a broadcast - or perhaps it's the environment one's listening in; i.e. domestic surroundings with distractions that aren't present in a concert hall).

In the past when I've heard Shostakovitch's symphonies (bits, not listening to a complete one) I've found what I've heard rather 'hard' - too much like the soundtrack of Soviet films extolling the workers in factories or on the farm - montages of whirling machinery or armies of farm workers. Then I wsent to a concert of some of the string quartets, which I found eye (and ear) opening, so decided I should give the symphonies a go. Yesterday's was the first I've heard all the way through, & I'm still not sure - the first movement started well enough, but all those montages gradually returned! I'll have another listen (& to the interval talk - I just caught the end) & see if it improves with familiarity.

[Flosshilde]

I should add, Mario, that I'm quite awe-struck at your willingness & preparedness to dive in & get to know new music - it's not long ago that you did the same with Wagner, I think?

[Auferstehen2]

I can only ask longer-serving messageboarders to recall that, back on the old BBC Mbs, I consistently said that I knew very little music, but that which I knew, I knew very well. I have always preferred to know few pieces of music very well, than a large amount superficially.

The problem with this of course, is that I’m limited to a narrow knowledge. There is a huge amount of the “standard fare” that I don’t know, and I’m simply trying to catch up with the very knowledgeable people here (I’ll never succeed of course, but it’s great fun trying).

I remain firmly chained to the C18 and C19 centuries, and still find it very difficult to wrench myself away from this field, in particular of course, Beethoven.

This man talks to me like no other, and his music still seems so fresh. I understand there is a programme called Desert Island Discs which I’ve never listened to (even though I lived in London for some 35 years), but I believe it has something to do with what works would you have with you if stranded? My answer is simple – I will only choose one (I’m cheating of course), and that is the Complete Piano Sonatas by LvB. These for me traverse every facet of the human condition, from the sublime levels of ecstasy found in the Arietta of his last sonata and back to the depths of plummeting profundity reached in the Hammerklavier adagio.

And so I turned, as you correctly stated, to Wagner, and recently to Vaughan Williams. Neither has turned my world upside down as LvB has done, but I am pleased to have acquired their music. DSCH may likewise do so.

Here’s hoping.

Mario

[3rd Viennese School]

I still havent jotted down where I think some of the symphony quotations are in 15! Been very busy in this office!

Coming up at some point.

P.S. Flosshide. If you dont want DSCH film type music you could listen to symphony no.2, 13, 14 ,15!

3VS

[3rd Viennese School]

Okay. Here are the symphonies in DSCH 15. Some are quotations and some just remind me of a symphony. Taking liberties with some of them!

1 Mvt 3 climax 15 Mvt 2 funeral march

2 That bit with the high strings then chorus 15 Mvt 2 high strings 12 note tune just before funeral march

3 ?
4 Mvt 1 Development 15 Mvt 1 Development

5 Mvt 3 Climax 15 Mvt 4 just before the climax of 7

6 End of mvt 3 15 Mvt 1 near start and near end

7 Mvt 1 Main march 15 Mvt 4 Development in the base then the huge climax

8 Mvt 1 Start of development first 3 notes 15 Mvt 2 near end

9 Mvt 1 start 15 Mvt 3 Trio

10 DSCH 15 Mvt 3 Trio-just after the above!

11 Mvt 4 silly bit 15 Mvt 3 tune – in the manner of

12 ?

13 Mvt 3 woodblock 15 Mvt 2 woodblock

14 as above 15 as above

15 Mvt 1 start 15 Mvt 4 at the end!

Cello Concerto no.1 start 15 Mvt 1 - in the manner of

Cello Concerto no.2 end/ 4 Mvt 2 end 15 end




Can’t find one for 12. But it’s in exactly the same order! (These are the only 2 symphonies in this order)


3VS

[Flosshilde]

P.S. Flosshide. If you dont want DSCH film type music you could listen to symphony no.2, 13, 14 ,15!

3VS

Thanks for the tip, 3rd.