Shostakovich Symphonies

[visualnickmos]

To Mario (msg 45)

Many thanks for the info - I will check it out.

Nick

[Bryn]

Curses!

Don't you ever get tired of always being right, Bryn?



Mario

Just concerned that someone might think these boards might be a bit dodgy, Mario. There are plenty of places on the Internet where 'free' downloads may be had. Even the whole of the Moscow/Kondrashin set is there. However, that does not mean such downloads are legal, or indeed ethically legitimate.

Just been listening to the Raiskin (the £2.37 Amazon mp3 version converted to WAV and burned to CD-R). It is very good, but for me it lacks much of the 'bite' of the three available Kondrashin directed performances, or that under Wigglesworth. That said, I am very glad to have it to listen to.

[Auferstehen2]

Just kidding Bryn.

I think you did the right thing in helping some of us avoid the clink!

Mario

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

umslopagaas#52;

You're right about Mravinsky recording the Twelfth - according to the "official" Discography, there are two recordings, both of significance to his recording career: the first was recorded in 1961 and was "his last studio recording" (presumably ever?), the second was from a concert in 1984 and was "his last recording" (again, presumably of anything).

There are eight recordings of the Fifth, three of the Sixth, one of the Seventh (which I've never encountered: recorded in 1953), four of the Eighth, four of the Tenth, and two each of the Eleventh and Fifteenth.

... and the First Violin Concerto, the Festive Overture and The Song of the Forests.


But NOT, alas, the Ninth. So I must've been dreaming.

[Nick Armstrong]

There have been so many in the half century since it was first performed in its orchestral form that it's hard to say and I've ertainly not listened to all of them. One of the most successful in many ways was Previn around 40 years ago; many conductors tend to take the big "unperoration" near its close just too fast, with the result that the repeated figuresthat pass between each of the two timpanists tend to get too muffled in the general texture and the whole lacks necessary schwung, but Previn seemed to get this just about right. Taken at a whisker below dotted minim = 50 this passage works really well for this and the coda that follows - and the tempo is supposed in any case to remain consistent from the big C major outburst right to the close of the symphony. One to avoid absolutely (although I'm not sre if it was ever recorded) was a performance that I heard conducted by Lazarev in which the coda was taken at little more than half speed with accents on the third beat of each bar that made what's otherwise a most devastating conclusion sound like an absurdly lumpen caricature.

Noted, thanks.

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban

I'd say that the Raiskin performance is an excellent way into the 4th. If you PM me your address, I'll burn a copy for you too (I'm supposed to be going to London tomorrow so can post it while I'm there).

HD

Despite the cold water of the law dousing its warmth, your sun-kissed offer is very much appreciated!

I'll get the amazon download 'on the level' and hope this piece 'clicks' for me. As a matter of interest, would you say that Mr Raiskin gets the ending right in the way ahinton points up in his #60?

[Mahlerei]

HD thanks - could that download be my way into the 4th? I'd be silly not to try, at that price, I guess... But the indispensable performance is the Kondrashin, is it?

Oh, if only life were that simple. There are two Kondrashin 4ths that I know of, the Moscow and Dresden ones, and both are indeed indispensable. But the Wigglesworth (BIS) and Raiskin (C-Avi) must be added to the list.

[Anna]

I have both the Kondrashin sets Jayne mentions, the Aulos and the Melodiya but don't know the Dresden one mahlerei for the 4th, I must look for that. I also have the Barshai £2.50 from Superdrug!!

[Bryn]

Oh, if only life were that simple. There are two Kondrashin 4ths that I know of, the Moscow and Dresden ones, and both are indeed indispensable. But the Wigglesworth (BIS) and Raiskin (C-Avi) must be added to the list.

Mahlerei, don't forget the January 1971 RCO/Kondrashin in Volume 4 of the RCO Radio Recordings sets. That tops the list for me. The Dresden was 1963 and the Moscow 1966.

[Mahlerei]

Thanks, Bryn, wasn't aware of that one.

[HighlandDougie]

Caliban

Without detailed checking with a metronome, I think that he does. It certainly sounds OK to me. Ahinton is absolutely right, though, to emphasise that the tempo should remain consistent - slowing down (or speeding up, for that matter) would go against what one might surmise were the composer's intentions in writing what I always think of as this great musical warning. The percussion is fundamental so, get the balance of that wrong, and, in Ahinton's memorable phrase, a "lumpen caricature" may well be the result. Such use of percussion also features in the 2nd Cello Concerto and the 15th Symphony, to equally telling effect. The ending, in a performance which follows the composer's wishes, never fails for me to be devastating. I've heard some great performances of this symphony in the concert hall over the years (Haitink; Sinaisky; and, a bit lost in the mists of time, Jarvi, to name but three) and there are some great performances on record. I haven't checked but I must have at least 15 recordings of which Kondrashin is hors concours. The recording quality, although much improved in the current Melodiya incarnation and of tolerable quality in the live 1963 Dresden recording from Profil, is clearly not going to be up to the standards of Wigglesworth but somehow one forgets about it. Enough rambling - the Raiskin is live, well-recorded in a proper concert hall, has the orchestra playing as if their lives depend on it and, while it may lack the 'bite' of Kondrashin (or, for that matter, Caetani), is still utterly convincing - and only £2.37. If you don't like it, I'll send you your money back!

[umslopogaas]

#67 Mahlerei, it may be even more complicated. I've got two LP versions of the 4th conducted by Kondrashin: one is with the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra and is on HMV/Melodiya, ASD 2741 and the other is with the Symphony Orchestra of the Moscow Philharmonic Society, on a russian 2 disc set, MK C 0295-298(a) with the Hamlet Suite as a filler. Unless those are the same orchestra moonlighting under two different names, which I gather is not unheard of, that makes two Moscow recordings plus a third from Dresden (which I dont have).

I've also recordings by Ormandy/Philadelphia O. (claimed to be "American Recording Premiere"), Haitink/LPO and Previn/Chicago SO. I wouldnt willingly part with any of them, but recall that the Previn was particularly good (and his version of the fifth, with the LSO, is pretty vivid, too).

[Byas'd Opinion]

Is there any agreement on how the last movement of the Fifth should be performed? Is it a triumphal finale, or a parody of a triumphal finale?

The first recording I heard was the Karel Ancerl version on MfP, which plays it straight. I never felt the finale sat well with the rest of the work in that version. Some of the more ironic interpretations I've heard have seemed to work a lot better, but I'm sure I remember hearing on a BaL on the Fifth that some of them only achieved their effect by deviating quite a bit from the tempi and dynamics indicated in the score.

[ahinton]

Is there any agreement on how the last movement of the Fifth should be performed? Is it a triumphal finale, or a parody of a triumphal finale?

It depends how it's played but, as far as the content of the score itself is concerned, it's very much the latter, the more so because it's been carefully yet spontaneously calculated to ensure that it can, if need be, be viewed on both levels; Shostakovich was the very opposite of a fool and had the gift to be able to do this kind of thing, regardless of - and perhaps at times almost because of - the stresses under which he was placed, just as (in very different contexts) Mozart could write works that can appeal to children on one level and to adults on quite another. The best way to deal with the finale is to ensure that its coda is rushed through breathlessly in such a way as to undermine any sense of triumphalism that might otherwise threaten to materialise, rather as (albeit in a quite different context) the best way to handle the coda of Beethoven's symphony of the same number is to do the very same.

[jayne lee wilson]

The plot thickens...

The Aulos and Melodiya remasters both have stereo 4ths, but the Aulos dates it as 1962, the Melodiya 1966... on my original Melodiya CD the mono recording is dated 1962! Heavens... I'll try to compare them if time permits (SA Tax Return beckons...) but does anyone know for sure what's what here? I suspect the orchestra is always the Moscow Phil, but...

HD, if you want MORE temptation, I'll climb mermaid-like onto the rocks again, so tie yourself to the mast quick...

Shostakovich Complete String Quartets/Taneyev Quartet/ Aulos AMC2-055; in a beautiful turquoise-blue case... happy searching (once you've stopped your ears and untied yourself).

What d'you mean is it any good?

Petrushka jogged my memory - the first orchestral concert I ever attended was DSCH 8 with the RLPO conducted by Maxim Shostakovich, I've just found the ticket dated September 21st 1974.

After that I ransacked the local record library for all those Melodiyas... I noticed back then that hardly anyone else ever borrowed DSCH at all!

#67 Mahlerei, it may be even more complicated. I've got two LP versions of the 4th conducted by Kondrashin: one is with the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra and is on HMV/Melodiya, ASD 2741 and the other is with the Symphony Orchestra of the Moscow Philharmonic Society, on a russian 2 disc set, MK C 0295-298(a) with the Hamlet Suite as a filler. Unless those are the same orchestra moonlighting under two different names, which I gather is not unheard of, that makes two Moscow recordings plus a third from Dresden (which I dont have).

I've also recordings by Ormandy/Philadelphia O. (claimed to be "American Recording Premiere"), Haitink/LPO and Previn/Chicago SO. I wouldnt willingly part with any of them, but recall that the Previn was particularly good (and his version of the fifth, with the LSO, is pretty vivid, too).