2011 Survey of classical music broadcast on Radio 3 - The Results

[cloughie]

2180 individual composers sounds wonderful to me. I can't name 2180 individual composers.

I'm sure I heard at least one Honegger symphony (no. 2 and/or 3) during the year but I could be wrong.

it seems to me that if Milhaud, Rubbra and Simpson (for example) are one's particular interest, any Radio 3 deficiences can easily be made up for in one's own CD/Download collection. I should imagine there are messageboarders with particular, niche musical interests, who never expect Radio 3 to cater for those interests, they appreciate that not every musical byway can be covered.

how fascinating would be an equivalent survey for 1961, 1971 or 1981 - what would they tell us I wonder

More FWs less BCs!

[DracoM]

Many thanks for exhaustive work.

The sadness for me has been the dearth of Elliott Carter, surely one of the most inventive and continually surprising composers around at the moment - but for how long?

[french frank]

I should imagine there are messageboarders with particular, niche musical interests, who never expect Radio 3 to cater for those interests, they appreciate that not every musical byway can be covered.

I think many people would take the view that, in terms of 'classical music', there are no musical byways 'which can't be covered'. There is a broadly expected pecking order but there is such a numerical disparity between those at the top and those at the bottom (to say nothing of those who never appear at all) that significant adjustments could be made. The 'essential classics' mindset creeping in will in fact create an even greater disparity, with much more mainstream repertoire being played.

how fascinating would be an equivalent survey for 1961, 1971 or 1981 - what would they tell us I wonder

It would be fascinating. Theoretically, there should be fewer composers, fewer pieces but I wonder how the proportions would differ? I'll see what I can dig out from some of the old schedules which I have - they're not very comprehensive. And it would be difficult to make meaningful numerical comparisons because, for instance, TTN didn't begin until 1996 and that alone has been responsible for introducing some of the more obscure composers.

RW has said, defending the playing of extracts, that they enable R3 to play a larger amount of 'great music'. But with the greatest of respect for my good and knowledgeable friend, that's claptrap. I would question whether it is the role of R3 to select the 'best music' and concentrate on that. That way lies ... Classic FM: Radio 3 is supposed to be the complementary, specialist service.

[aeolium]

Once again a tremendous piece of work, Suffolkcoastal - many thanks.

Disappointing that Mozart topped the table even leaving aside the 950 or so of his works that were broadcast in the Mozartfest - you would have thought that having a dedicated festival for 12 days would have resulted in an easing off for the remaining 353.

Something that might be more helpful in showing the composers that have really been favoured (or lost out) in 2011 compared with either 2009 or 2010 would be to highlight if the percentage increase or reduction was due to an anniversary (e.g. the Purcell reduction of over 50% due to the 2009 anniversary) by putting the percentage reduction or increase in bold (perhaps only where there are large increases or reductions). That would enable people to see real large increases or reductions irrespective of anniversaries. (More work, I know!!)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many thanks for exhaustive work.

Many thanks, Suffy.

The sadness for me has been the dearth of Elliott Carter, surely one of the most inventive and continually surprising composers around at the moment - but for how long?

I misread the eighth word of this and got quite a shock! I agree that he has been under-represented to the Beeb's shame. But then, Milton Babbitt's death was "commemorated" by ... well a passing mention on Late Junction with about 70 seconds of excerpts from his total output. One of the most influential and witty minds in post-WW2 Music deserved much better treatment; one of the most inventive and playfully profound composers of that period demands better. Babbitt was both.

[Don Petter]

It seems to me that if Milhaud, Rubbra and Simpson (for example) are one's particular interest, any Radio 3 deficiences can easily be made up for in one's own CD/Download collection.

The question is how are these composers to become of interest, and result in such purchases. This is exactly the area where R3 could (and I think should) be bringing them to our notice - if you like a 'try before you buy'.

[amateur51]

Bravo Suffolkcoastal! This is a marvellous piece of data collection and analysis - it must have have taken you many hours but the results are astonishing. Many, many thanks

Thanks too to french frank for thinking of going back over previous decades with whatever data is possible. It is effort like this (not relatively silly squabbles about gender balance in the VPO ) that makes this Board so valuable to me AND to the BBC if only they knew it. Would any devotee of CFM do this? Would they buffalo!

The message to Radio 3 is clear - we're watching what you do and we care about its impact!

Bravo once again, Suffolkcoastal!

[Chris Newman]

Suffolkcoastal, you deserve a medal. Thank you for the hard work. As amateur51 says this evidence shows Radio 3 that we do care and are very concerned about the dropping staandards.

[MrGongGong]

Webern ?
Berg ?
Schoenberg ?
Ligeti ?
Feldman ?
Messiaen ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, as Am and Chris say, we care about the station and what it stands for, something I don't think is recognized, let alone reciprocated. It often seems, to the contrary, that we're regarded as pests, irrelevant to the BBC "mission statement".

[antongould]

Yes thanks once again for your wonderful efforts. I think on another thread you suggested you might try, the much loved hereabouts, Your Call but felt your choice would be deemed too obscure. This morning we had a gentleman who seemed very knowledgeable and was, to me at least, interesting who asked for and got Emil Georg Conrad von Sauer or rather part of his Piano Concerto! A new name to me at least and, again IMHO, a rather nice piece.
So I look forward to hearing you telling those few of us who listen why Session's 8th means such much to you and the day after who knows salymap and Ma Vlast!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Webern ?
Berg ?
Schoenberg ?
Ligeti ?
Feldman ?
Messiaen ?

Dunstable?
Perotin?
Schutz?
Machaut?
Ockeghem?
Dufay?



... this is not just "playing" with names of favourite composers who I feel might be neglected. Both MrGG and I have listed essential composers whose low representation is inexcusable.

[mercia]

Suffolk's survey says that 2180 composers were played last year
is it not asking the impossible to give them all equal airtime?

[french frank]

I've done an initial study of the week Jan 3-9 1970 which shows some interesting facts. Bear in mind that it's a single week in isolation and therefore the detail may not be typical. Numerical information is hard to assess because often the name of a recitalist is given with no info on composers (predominantly mainstream, at a guess), while a programme of 'Bartok' doesn't reveal how many pieces were played and a name appearing may only refer to a single short song.

However, it's clear that contemporary composers figure largely - 24-ish? out of 65, not including, say, Sibelius or Elgar who are 'mainstream', not 'modernist'. Cardew and Ferneyhough already there! A bit more research would show how many were still living. Most contemporary composers are continental, with Italy figuring strongly. In terms of overall quantity, the great majority of the airtime would have been filled by mainstream composers and, I think, well-known works - though the details are missing to show that. This is the list of all named (incl. 'Anon''!) composers:

Anon
Aplvor, Denis
Arne
Arriaga
Bach
Barber
Bartok
Beethoven
Berio
Berlioz
Blacher, Boris
Boulez
Brahms
Britten
Cardew, C
Casella, A
Cecconi(-Botella), M
Chopin
Cornelius, P
Dallapiccola
De Leeuw, Ton
Debussy
Dvorak
Elgar
Ferneyhough
Franck
Ghedini, GF
Handel
Haydn
Josquin des Prez
Lawes, W
Lehar
Ligeti
Liszt
Lutyens
Mahler
Malipiero, GF
Méhul, E
Messiaen
Mozart
Penderecki
Petrassi, G
Praetorius
Purcell
Rameau
Ravel
Raxach, E
Scarlatti
Schoenberg
Schubert
Schumann
Serocki, K
Shostakovich
Sibelius
Strauss, R
Stravinsky
Tchaikovsky
Telemann
Varèse
Vaughan Williams
Vivaldi
Wagner
Warlock
Weber
Wishart, Peter

NB: This is the William Glock era!

[Flay]

Please will somebody tell me what a BC is.