One for the audiophiles: radio surround sound tests

[french frank]

Rupert Brun and his team have been experimenting with some archive recordings of the festival of Nine Lessons and Carols from King's College. He explains on the R3 blog and invites people to participate in tests and a questionnaire.

[VodkaDilc]

Looks interesting.

Something it reminds me of will really test the honesty of some of the older board members. Come on, honestly, are you old enough to recall, in the late 1950s, moving your parents' furniture around in order to take part in the BBC's experiments with stereophony? (On Saturday mornings, I think.) Leaving the radio where it was, dragging the television to the right and sitting in what become the normal stereo listening position, it was supposed to be possible to hear a stereophonic broadcast. My very young ears and very literal brain would not allow me to even consider hearing music from the middle of nowhere and I dismissed it all as a lot of mumbo-jumbo. It was another decade or so before I caught by the hi-fi bug which has made holes in my wallet ever since.

[Bryn]

Looks interesting.

Something it reminds me of will really test the honesty of some of the older board members. Come on, honestly, are you old enough to recall, in the late 1950s, moving your parents' furniture around in order to take part in the BBC's experiments with stereophony? (On Saturday mornings, I think.) Leaving the radio where it was, dragging the television to the right and sitting in what become the normal stereo listening position, it was supposed to be possible to hear a stereophonic broadcast. My very young ears and very literal brain would not allow me to even consider hearing music from the middle of nowhere and I dismissed it all as a lot of mumbo-jumbo. It was another decade or so before I caught by the hi-fi bug which has made holes in my wallet ever since.

I most certainly do remember, though in our case it was the radio which was brought in from the kitchen, rather than the television which was moved. I had no trouble hearing the stereo effect.

[Flay]

When I was a student (talking early 70s here) I used to wire an extra speaker across the loudspeaker positives of my trusty Rogers Ravensbrook amplifier, putting it at the back of the room. It provided a sort-of surround sound effect. It certainly gave music depth (although amplified the crackles).

That amplifier is in the loft somewhere. I wonder if it still works? It's got a paper clip where the fuse should be!

[MrGongGong]

When I was a student (talking early 70s here) I used to wire an extra speaker across the loudspeaker positives of my trusty Rogers Ravensbrook amplifier, putting it at the back of the room. It provided a sort-of surround sound effect. It certainly gave music depth (although amplified the crackles).

That amplifier is in the loft somewhere. I wonder if it still works? It's got a paper clip where the fuse should be!

aaaah the old antiphase technique

[mangerton]

Looks interesting.

Something it reminds me of will really test the honesty of some of the older board members. Come on, honestly, are you old enough to recall, in the late 1950s, moving your parents' furniture around in order to take part in the BBC's experiments with stereophony? (On Saturday mornings, I think.)

Yes, I remember this, and I think I wrote about it either here or on the R3 boards. The tests were on Saturday mornings. we were lving in Edinburgh at the time, 1958 or 59. I remember my father moving the radiogram into the correct position in relation to the tv, and my mother's horror at the disruption to the sitting room.

[salymap]

I certainly remember the Saturday morning tests. and listening to the train/tennis ball/ whatever, crossing my living room.

Ferretfancy is the member who knows most about those tests, I'm fairly sure he took part in them at the BBC.

[amateur51]

Yes, I remember this, and I think I wrote about it either here or on the R3 boards. The tests were on Saturday mornings. we were lving in Edinburgh at the time, 1958 or 59. I remember my father moving the radiogram into the correct position in relation to the tv, and my mother's horror at the disruption to the sitting room.

Identical experience in North Wales, mangertion

Mind, my mother always put a large display of holly atop the radiogram lid at this time of year too which led to several battles every year

[Dave2002]

I think there were several tests. Some with radio and TV and some with FM and AM. The stereo was interesting, though the quality differences between the different channels were very obvious.

[Alf-Prufrock]

I remember taking part in those experiments and my mother being astonished by the realism added by stereo. I did it by bringing in the radio too. But I heard of somebody in my area (not even an acquaintance of mine, I'm sorry to say) who had EMI Stereosonics tapes that he played on a specially bought machine, two mono amplifiers and speakers. He rigged up his system to take the TV signal through one amp and the radio signal through the other. Apparently he got amazing sound. He must have had some electronic experience.

Those Stereosonics tapes were wonderfully good in their time (I bought a couple a few years later), but very expensive in comparison with LPs.

Ah, happy days when all was new and fresh (to me, at any rate).

[french frank]

So.

Anyone have any opinion on the latest experiments or is it simply material for infinite disagreements? Rupert and his team await comments

[Ferretfancy]

I worked in BH Control Room when the first stereo tests were transmitted on Saturday mornings, using the AM transmitter at Brookmans Park, and the TV transmitter at Crystal Palace. We all gathered in single file between the huge LSU10 speakers like line dancers! The results were not wonderful. One problem was that Crystal Palace was nearer to BH than Brookmans Park,
so they had to do some fancy line routing to make the signal paths the same length to avoid phase errors.

Much later, in the stereo era proper, the Beeb did quite a few experiments with binaural recording using dummy heads with mics in the ears, and on headphones the results were spectacular, but unfortunately the effect on two speakers was not. I imagine that the Kings College recordings are from these tests. There were also a few transmissions using ambisonics in UHJ format.

All this is easier to do in digital mode, of course, and my home system from Meridian allows me to listen in surround sound film formats, as well as providing a number of options to synthesise surround from conventional stereo sources, and I find it very convincing, giving rear channel ambience without any odd effects. The best results come from the recordings from the early days of stereo, where simple microphone techniques were in use. These can give a very vivid sense of the acoustic in the hall.
Oddly, Meridian do not support SACD, claiming that it is over-engineered, so I have no way of checking that . Not to worry, I'm happy with what i've got.

The original posting suggested that centre speakers were not good for music listening, and that strings tend to bunch together in the centre of the image. That only happens if the speakers are not properly balanced in both level and listening distance. With my 5:1 set up I have no problems, but it does need careful placing and adjustment when first installed.

[Bryn]

So.

Anyone have any opinion on the latest experiments or is it simply material for infinite disagreements? Rupert and his team await comments

I was wondering much the same thing. However, with so much going on, and over seven and a half hours of binaural alternatives (should be 9 hours bu the first option was still not working when I last looked) quick responses are unlikely to be considered responses.

[Nick Armstrong]

Hope this doesn't duplicate something above which I've missed on a quick read, but the R3 facebook page reminds us that in 1977, the Festival of Lessons and Carols was broadcast in Quadrophonic...

[Bryn]

Hope this doesn't duplicate something above which I've missed on a quick read, but the R3 facebook page reminds us that in 1977, the Festival of Lessons and Carols was broadcast in Quadrophonic...

Indeed it is binaural mixes of that recording which are available for audition (and capture, with appropriate software).

Oops, either they are 30 years out or I am. The six binaural mixes are based on said to be based on a 2007 recording.