Pomp & Circumstances March No.1: Do You Like It?

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  • Nick Armstrong
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 26536

    #16
    Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
    He conducted as I recall it a raved about Enigma on DG - perhaps that was coupled with the P & C that Caliban refers to ?
    Precisely, Barb. A disc no-one who likes Elgar should be without!
    "...the isle is full of noises,
    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

    Comment

    • Pabmusic
      Full Member
      • May 2011
      • 5537

      #17
      Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
      Indeed she does through the terrible recording quality .

      Coincidentally , I was thinking about old Norman del Mar last night when listening to the lovely performance of Serenade for Strings he conducted now coupled with Barbirolli's symphonies . He conducted as I recall it a raved about Enigma on DG - perhaps that was coupled with the P & C that Caliban refers to ?
      Yes, the Enigma and P & C Marches were issued together (about 1976?) on a small record label that I can't remember. DG must have later acquired the recordings.

      Comment

      • Serial_Apologist
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 37689

        #18
        (Over)familiarity with P&C No 1 undoubtedly led to an anti-Elgar prejudice in me over many years, not having heard much of his other music: particularly the life-affirming Introduction & Allegro. I hate the section of the march with lyrics. The rest of it is wonderful: a brilliant exercise in orchestration and a chromaticism that must surely have shocked audiences at the beginning of the last century. If the first section, with its repeats, had been reformulated, minus the patriotic march, it would have made a stunning orchestral scherzo, imho.

        S-A

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        • amateur51

          #19
          Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
          Yes, the Enigma and P & C Marches were issued together (about 1976?) on a small record label that I can't remember. DG must have later acquired the recordings.
          Here's the link:

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          • Norfolk Born

            #20
            It's Elgar, so of course I like it!

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            • Chris Newman
              Late Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 2100

              #21
              I love Pomp and Circumstance March No 1 when the big tune is taken briskly (without words) as by the composer, Tod Handley (love the organ!!) and Georg Solti. It has an autumnal bitter/sweet feel to it: though nothing about glory. Take it slowly and it is a dirge. It is neither a solemn nor a happy melody and a conductor needs to get the balance right otherwise it errs towards gloom. David Owen-Norris did a brilliant analysis of the melody recently in John Bridcut's film about the composer, Elgar: The Man Behind the Mask, putting this much better than I am.

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              • Eine Alpensinfonie
                Host
                • Nov 2010
                • 20570

                #22
                Originally posted by Norfolk Born View Post
                It's Elgar, so of course I like it!
                Me too.
                I can't think of anything by Elgar that I don't like.

                Comment

                • Biffo

                  #23
                  Mandyka: I fully agree with your sentiments about patriotism. In Elder affair the rubbish press, as I said, manufactured a 'scandal' and the BBC (as usual) caved in. Elder's views scarcely got a look-in.

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                  • MrGongGong
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 18357

                    #24
                    Sadly for me, even though its a brilliant tune (YES I do mean that !) and great orchestration I am unable to separate it from what it has come to stand for which is sad but that's aways part of music !

                    Comment

                    • BBMmk2
                      Late Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20908

                      #25
                      I must be one opf the ;lucky ones who can dissacoiate the 'big tune' from the words.Taken as on itself, it's a really great uplifting piece of music. Just makes you want to stand up!
                      Don’t cry for me
                      I go where music was born

                      J S Bach 1685-1750

                      Comment

                      • Pabmusic
                        Full Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 5537

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Chris Newman View Post
                        I love Pomp and Circumstance March No 1 when the big tune is taken briskly (without words) as by the composer, Tod Handley (love the organ!!) and Georg Solti. It has an autumnal bitter/sweet feel to it: though nothing about glory. Take it slowly and it is a dirge. It is neither a solemn nor a happy melody and a conductor needs to get the balance right otherwise it errs towards gloom. David Owen-Norris did a brilliant analysis of the melody recently in John Bridcut's film about the composer, Elgar: The Man Behind the Mask, putting this much better than I am.
                        I thought it might be interesting to post a fuller piece about P & C 1, since – how I agree! – the words have coloured our perception of it. The following is adapted from prefaces I wrote for editions of the P & C Marches and the Coronation Ode. I used part of it in an earlier post, but the full thing might put it all in context.

                        "This is the best known of them all. It contains the tune that Elgar was to use in the Coronation Ode for the 1902 coronation, and which was to become the patriotic song, Land of Hope and Glory. However, it is sometimes forgotten that it was originally without words and became popular in that guise. Elgar knew from the start he had found one of the great tunes: “I’ve got a tune that will knock ‘em - knock ‘em flat”.

                        The first performance – together with No. 2 – was given in New Brighton, near Liverpool, on 19 October 1901 by the Liverpool Orchestral Society conducted by its dedicatee, the German Alfred Rodewald. It was an instant hit, being repeated in London soon after.

                        Then came a suggestion from the new king (Edward VII) that words should be set to the tune. “It will go round the world”, he said. (At least, that was Elgar’s tale; it seems more likely that the suggestion first came from Clara Butt.) Shortly thereafter, Elgar was commissioned by the management of the Royal Opera House to write a piece in celebration of the forthcoming coronation, to be performed at a gala concert at Covent Garden on the eve of the event. Elgar decided to use The Tune.

                        His friend, the German August Jaeger, publishing manager at Novellos (and Nimrod in the Enigma Variations), was not so sure. “I say, you will have to write another tune…I have been trying to fit words to it. The drop to E and the bigger drop afterwards are quite impossible in singing any words to them, they sound downright vulgar. Just try it…It will sound horrible.” However, Elgar was determined (“I haven’t time to answer all your impertinent letters…” he wrote), and approached Arthur Benson to write a libretto. Arthur Christopher Benson had met Elgar already about the time of the King’s accession in January 1901. He was a Housemaster (resident teacher) at Eton College and later became Master of Magdalene College, Oxford. Benson worked enthusiastically to produce suitable words for Elgar’s music, and he succeeded in writing a libretto which encapsulated both the hope and the anxieties of the time.

                        Elgar began writing the music in February, completing the orchestration of the score in April. Boosey & Hawkes paid £100 for it and a royalty for every vocal score sold. They also suggested releasing Land Of Hope And Glory as a solo song, and composer and librettist responded by altering the words to create a more general-purpose patriotic song. It is this version that has the 'wider still and wide' words. At no stage was the March published with words, and such performances do nothing more than sing a very small part of the song - and in G and D to boot (B flat is more usual for the song)

                        The fame of the central tune has perhaps obscured the rest of the march. Its opening two sections show a restlessness that is far removed from any feeling of complacency. Neither rhythm nor tonality settles well until the G major trio begins. Even the glittering orchestration helps to reinforce a sense of urgency, with off-beat thumps on bass drum and virtuoso passages for brass, particularly trombones. Elgar loved jokes (“japes” he often called them) and was always amused that he had begun his march ‘in D major’ with a unison E flat throughout the orchestra!

                        There is even a surprise in the famous trio tune, for on its return in D major at the end of the march Elgar alters its rhythm for just one bar at the climax. It is an effective touch that is lost completely when massed voices sing Land of Hope and Glory. The march is still occasionally performed without singing, but it is common to warn the audience beforehand not to sing! If this succeeds, the full brilliance of Elgar’s orchestration can be appreciated, with sleigh bells, glockenspiel and an organ adding to the effect.

                        Something should be said about the separate life that the great trio tune has in the USA. In 1905, Yale University awarded Elgar an honorary doctorate in music, following a proposal by his friend Professor Samuel Sanford, the dedicatee of the Introduction and Allegro for strings. The composer attended the degree ceremony, where first Pomp and Circumstance march was the last of several works played by the New Haven Symphony. The great tune had such an effect on those present that Yale repeated it at further ceremonies. It was quickly adopted by other colleges; Princeton (1907), Chicago (1908), Columbia (1913), Vassar (1916) and Rutgers (1918). Now it is almost unthinkable that an American graduation ceremony could occur without it. Indeed, it is sometimes referred to as the ‘Graduation Song’."
                        Last edited by Pabmusic; 27-11-11, 17:22.

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                        • Petrushka
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 12252

                          #27
                          Many thanks for an extremely interesting article, pabmusic.

                          Makes you want to play it right now.
                          "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

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                          • EdgeleyRob
                            Guest
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 12180

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                            Many thanks for an extremely interesting article, pabmusic.

                            Makes you want to play it right now.
                            Thanks from me too, fascinating stuff. Am I alone in prefering the big tune in no 4 to LOHAG ?.

                            Comment

                            • Nick Armstrong
                              Host
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 26536

                              #29
                              Originally posted by EdgeleyRob View Post
                              Thanks from me too, fascinating stuff. Am I alone in prefering the big tune in no 4 to LOHAG ?.
                              No, Rob - I'm with you
                              "...the isle is full of noises,
                              Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                              Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                              Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                              Comment

                              • EdgeleyRob
                                Guest
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 12180

                                #30
                                Hairs on the back of the neck music for me!

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