What is the history of silence in music?

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  • hackneyvi

    #16
    It's fascinating to see that the silence has been used as a dramatic tool for several hundred years. Then in the last 60 years, pieces of music have contained more expansive silences, it seems. I haven't been able to "join the dots" so that I can see some kind of culture of silence that the later 20th and then 21st century pieces directly expand on. Silence seems perhaps to explode in more recent music? To jostle for position music? Or to deflate music's conventional effects? Is that so?

    Thinking about silence today, I can see that there can be silence before and after music, during and within it. Most of the silences seem to be either those of relaxation or tension, when something's gathered or released. Is that fair? Some silences are fixed in rests or bars; some are conventions before or after - those sloughed moments before a piece is played or after it; some are inexact durations - between movements.

    But why should there not be other silences? And what else might they be? What intentional uses are silences put to in other forms of communication?

    Are there musical silences of anger? Of accusation? Teasing silences? (Are there silences "of western mountains?" Silences "of northern moonlight"?)

    The silence of impatience? Of peace (the Moonlight interlude of Britten's Four sea Interludes seems distinctly to be this sort of silence).

    Oh! - on Armistice Day, following the Last Post there's a two minute silence preceding the Reveille. Music and timed silence have a tradition almost a century old in this country, then! A history that began when John Cage was only a little boy.

    Are there other examples of silence in our culture that we can connect to music?

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    • hackneyvi

      #17
      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post


      ... and there are others: the Second Polish Diary ...
      My first Nono tonight - Quando stanno morendo: Diarrio Polacco No 2 - on the marvellous (free) Spotify.

      PS: With some virtuoso coughing and sneezing from the audience at the start of part 2.
      Last edited by Guest; 16-11-11, 00:18.

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      • hackneyvi

        #18
        Are some silences destructive?

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        • old khayyam

          #19
          Originally posted by hackneyvi View Post
          Most of the silences seem to be either those of relaxation or tension
          Indeed, HV, lets get metaphysical: Without silence there cannot be music. Without silence there cannot be a note. Music, specifically rhythm, has been defined as the tension between the notes. In musical terms, silence may be defined as a dynamic. Without dynamic tension there can be no music in its true sense. Music can not be defined as a series of notes. A series of notes is just someone practicing a scale. Once a meaning, a purpose, has been added, a relationship forms between the notes. That relationship is what we refer to as music. Silence is not merely a drop in audibility between the notes, a gap where we wait for the next note. The silence is the music.

          It therefore follows that the greater the music, the more silence it will contain (novelty pieces notwithstanding).

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          • SFactor123

            #20
            Never knew about silence in a song, now I know.

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            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37684

              #21
              Originally posted by SFactor123 View Post
              Never knew about silence in a song, now I know.
              How far did you have to come to leave that message, SFactor123? Did it take you long?

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              • MrGongGong
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 18357

                #22
                Originally posted by old khayyam View Post
                Indeed, HV, lets get metaphysical: Without silence there cannot be music. Without silence there cannot be a note. Music, specifically rhythm, has been defined as the tension between the notes. In musical terms, silence may be defined as a dynamic. Without dynamic tension there can be no music in its true sense. Music can not be defined as a series of notes. A series of notes is just someone practicing a scale. Once a meaning, a purpose, has been added, a relationship forms between the notes. That relationship is what we refer to as music. Silence is not merely a drop in audibility between the notes, a gap where we wait for the next note. The silence is the music.

                It therefore follows that the greater the music, the more silence it will contain (novelty pieces notwithstanding).

                This IS music



                and 4.33" is NOT a "novelty piece"

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                • Gordon
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1425

                  #23
                  Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                  ... the idea of "absolute" Zero, there can't be an absolute Zero (-273º K) ............
                  Just a wee morsel of scientific pedantry here: -273 degrees Centigrade if you please. That's 0 degrees Kelvin, that's why it's "zero". It may be a coincidence but I believe that the universe may be sitting at around 2.73 K.

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                  • MrGongGong
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 18357

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Gordon View Post
                    Just a wee morsel of scientific pedantry here: -273 degrees Centigrade if you please. That's 0 degrees Kelvin, that's why it's "zero". It may be a coincidence but I believe that the universe may be sitting at around 2.73 K.
                    Sorry
                    you are , of course, entirely correct

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                    • Gordon
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 1425

                      #25
                      Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                      Sorry
                      you are , of course, entirely correct
                      Mea culpa, not quite, I believe that "degrees" Kelvin is in fact not correct either, it's just Kelvin.

                      anyway, probably not in Budapest, which is in another country and they do things differently there.

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                      • MrGongGong
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 18357

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Gordon View Post
                        Mea culpa, not quite, I believe that "degrees" Kelvin is in fact not correct either, it's just Kelvin.

                        anyway, probably not in Budapest, which is in another country and they do things differently there.
                        indeed they do
                        and its a shame that all our Szechenyi Baths have gone (with a couple of notable exceptions)

                        Comment

                        • Tony Halstead
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 1717

                          #27
                          The extraordinary and very long-lived Catalan composer FEDERICO MOMPOU ( 1893-1987) wrote four volumes of piano pieces entitled
                          'Musica Callada' - based on the mystical poetry of Saint John of the Cross, the translation of the title being 'Silent Music' or 'The Music of Silence'.

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                          • Gordon
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 1425

                            #28
                            There is always Handel's "Silent Worship" from Tolomeo?

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                            • ahinton
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 16122

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Gordon View Post
                              Just a wee morsel of scientific pedantry here: -273 degrees Centigrade if you please. That's 0 degrees Kelvin, that's why it's "zero". It may be a coincidence but I believe that the universe may be sitting at around 2.73 K.
                              More pedantry; Celsius, not Centigrade...

                              Comment

                              • Gordon
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1425

                                #30
                                Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                                More pedantry; Celsius, not Centigrade...
                                Touché!! You can't get away with anything here can you?!

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