BBC4 "Symphony" with Simon Russell Beale

[John Skelton]

Why would it waste any more catastrophic an amount of money than any other broadcasts? Assuming it wasn't presented from outside the existing presenter group, it would take someone to write the scripts: but otherwise the discography of rarer symphonies must be significant by now and the BBC orchestras give concerts which contain some of the better known composers (and slightly more 'marginal' figures like Martinů), so it wouldn't need to be exclusively CDs. If only "57 old farts (& fartesses) have the time or inclination to listen in the afternoon" then the BBC might as well pull the plug anyway .

[french frank]

I would have extended the series for a a period of about 3 months in the afternoon devoting a week chronologically to each c20 year period from the origin to the present day, allowing the listener to contrast the great and well known, with the less well known, to show the developments, side tracks, dead ends etc of this most fascinating of musical structures.

I know Old Nick wasn't everyone's favourite controller, but when you compare "Fairest Isle" - celebrating the tercentenary of Purcell's death - and "Sounding the Century" which traced the development of music in the 20th century, with All Day Beethoven, All Day Bach, All Day Mozart (heaven preserve us from All Day Breakfast ) ... There was so much more scope for producers and allowed for a real breadth of creative vision. And I don't think they were tied in to a TV series.

Admittedly, the RW projects could have been cash-limited, but really they were in concept largely the normal schedule and presenters all concentraing on the same composer for a few days.

[Panjandrum]

But only (to use Wil Carling's phrase) 57 old farts (& fartesses) have the time or inclination to listen in the afternoon

Many of us now listen through Listen Again so this is not really a valid argument.

the idea would waste a catastrophic amount of money, wouldn't it?

Why would it? It might just prove to be a considerable success.

[Chris Newman]

Many of us now listen through Listen Again so this is not really a valid argument.

My listening to Radio 3 is almost entirely through Listen Again (iPlayer). In fact I think I listen to Radio 3 (and some continental stations) more now than I have done for years because I can please myself rather than be tied to the schedules.

I went out with friends last night. I am currently catching up with last night's Halle broadcast of Dvorak, Elgar and RVW.

[MrGongGong]

Stuck on a train that was nearly three hours late last night I remembered that I had downloaded the second programme
and
Oh dear
I liked the first for the contextual stuff
but this turned into such a "luvviefest" that it was painful
now i'm not a great enthusiast for programme music but this seemed to wallow in the whole Shakespeare , Harriet stuff with only a passing mention of the interesting things in the orchestra and instruments. I am a bit of an instrument geek (a perfect day out would be the instrument museum in Brussels followed by lashings of trappist ale and seafood ) but don't expect a whole pile of this. Nor would I want analysis (which some seem to be keen on !) , I've done enough of that and theres lots about if you like books.......BUT I was disappointed in this one compared to the first........

[french frank]

It's been made in association with the Open University and is currently described on the Radio 3 website as 'a radical reappraisal of the history of the symphony in the modern world'. Perhaps this will be on the Sue Perkins-Tom Service programme rather than the TV series?

Oh, dear. I listened to 10 minutes of Tom and Sue

[Serial_Apologist]

Sue, Grabbit and Runne

[Anna]

On seeing ff's reference to Tom & Sue I found it on iplayer. I only listened to 5 minutes of it but, this talk was aimed at new listeners (whether new listeners would have in fact tuned in for the concert is a different matter) so was it of value to them? That's the important point I think, will it draw listeners in and grab their interest so they want to learn more.

I only caught the last half of The Symphony Pt. 2. As Mr. GG said, it was a bit of a luvviefest with SRB climbing the ladder as Romeo to see if Berlioz had got it right or not. (He had) I'm not inclined to catch the part I missed on iplayer

[EdgeleyRob]

I only caught the last half of The Symphony Pt. 2. As Mr. GG said, it was a bit of a luvviefest with SRB climbing the ladder as Romeo to see if Berlioz had got it right or not. (He had) I'm not inclined to catch the part I missed on iplayer

You didn't miss anything.I am not inclined to make the effort with any further instalments.Its bobbins.

[MrGongGong]

it was a bit of a luvviefest with SRB climbing the ladder as Romeo to see if Berlioz had got it right or not. (He had) I'm not inclined to catch the part I missed on iplayer

I thought he definitely had it wrong !
what on earth is the point of a couple of thesps spouting Shakespeare over the music ?
if you want orchestral music that draws on text and the rhythm and spectra of speech then Jonathan Harvey's "Speakings" is all you need IMV
but I doubt that will appear in this series

this is well worth going to

http://www.barbican.org.uk/music/event-detail.asp?ID=11882

[johnb]

I would guess that SRB was merely the front man, reciting a script, and the programme structure and material was determined by the producers (Helen Mansfield and Andy King-Dabbs in pt2).

IMO Howard Goodall would have been an ideal person to present and oversee the series. The programmes he has done in the past have been both accessible to a general audience, interesting to those with somewhat more knowledge. It's a pity that such an opportunity for a really good series on the symphony has been squandered.

[french frank]

On seeing ff's reference to Tom & Sue I found it on iplayer. I only listened to 5 minutes of it but, this talk was aimed at new listeners (whether new listeners would have in fact tuned in for the concert is a different matter) so was it of value to them? That's the important point I think, will it draw listeners in and grab their interest so they want to learn more.

Well, my first thought at the first question was that Tom Service was set up as some kind of guru, the repository of all wisdom, even when he was expressing a personal opinion. I think I remember the exchange pretty much word for word:

Perkins: So ... to clap or not to clap (between movements)?

Service: Oh, to clap. It's an anachronism not to.


Well, wouldn't it be rather puzzling for new listeners to Radio 3, and new concert-goers, that audiences very seldom clap between movements? What was also puzzling was that he described the idea of not clapping until the end of the work as 'outmoded'. He then referred to the previous practice back in Haydn's time which he regarded as the example to be followed. So, not outmoded.

Now, I don't have a problem with Service thinking people should clap if they feel like it. I do have a problem with him pontificating on Radio 3 and suggesting that it's the thing to do.

Moreover, I was interested in his reply to the question about Haydn's 104/106 symphonies in contrast with Shostakovich's mere 15. Service said that this was Haydn bridging the gap between the symphony as popular entertainment - and composing his own symphonies regularly as part of his court duties - and latter day symphonists with the genre as (quoting from memory) 'serious, philosophical thought', 'an object of contemplation'. I thought perhaps he might have linked his two ideas with that of the development of quiet, attentive listening. But that would have been off-message

But this is The Big Question (NOT 'to clap or not to clap'): must you have a celebrity comedienne engaging in jolly banter with a more knowledgeable presenter in order to interest the new listeners who had presumably just sat through the whole of RVW's symphony No 5?

Incidentally, SymphonyQT with Sue Perkins was the nearest we got to Discovering Music last week; and the same this week. A further thinning of the end of the wedge.

[DublinJimbo]

I know Old Nick wasn't everyone's favourite controller

No indeed. In fact, I blame him for the start of the rot which has brought the once-great Third Programme/Radio 3 to the sorry state it's in today. NK also began the tinkering with the Proms, and look where that's brought us: Horrible Histories Prom, Human Planet Prom, Film Music Prom, Spaghetti Western Orchestra Prom, Comedy Prom (!!), Hooray For Hollywood Prom, Audience Choice Prom.

[Barbirollians]

Just got round to watching episode 3 of symphony . Under SRB's rushed travelogue there really might have been a good programme struggling to get out and Sir mark Elder was illuminating whenever he came on but the number of composers and works they tried to cram in to one hour was absurd.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In today's programme, a real commentary gaff, if my ears didn't deceive me - saying that as Master of the King's Music, Elgar dedicated the Second Symphony to the memory of King Edward VII in 1911.

That was a bit of a gamble as he wasn't appointed to this position until 1924.