The recorder: heading for extinction?

[Pulcinella]

Maybe we need a new David Munrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/05/recorder-fans-warn-instrument-heading-for-extinction-pandemic-decline-young-people

Oops! Moderator/host: please correct typo in thread title!

Subsequent edit: Thanks!

[RichardB]

It seems to me that in the UK music in schools more generally is heading for extinction, and this is just one symptom. At the same time, the article seems pretty lazy in focusing entirely on what's going on in a single private music school, which may well not be typical. I'm not sure any wider implications ought to be drawn from it!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Maybe we need a new David Munrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/05/recorder-fans-warn-instrument-heading-for-extinction-pandemic-decline-young-people

Oops! Moderator/host: please correct typo in thread title!

Subsequent edit: Thanks!

These things go in cycles . 25 years ago my children’s primary school band had a dozen flautists and only 4 string players. One thing I’ve noticed is the ubiquity of electronic keyboards which , if they are unweighted, are pretty unhelpful in terms of building a technique or shaping a musical phrase.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It seems to me that in the UK music in schools more generally is heading for extinction, and this is just one symptom. At the same time, the article seems pretty lazy in focusing entirely on what's going on in a single private music school, which may well not be typical. I'm not sure any wider implications ought to be drawn from it!

Be careful not to generalise .It varies from county to county , city to city , even school to school. I know of a music teacher in London. There is plenty of work around for him - for example he teaches a dozen or so piano students in a predominantly Asian / Muslim school (with an outstanding OFSTED grading ) . The only downside is they’ve all plumped for the Bach C maj prelude for their ABRSM! Most of his private students are Chinese some of who are doing Grade 8 in their early teens. There are very many parents at both private and state schools who are very keen for their children to have instrumental and general music tuition.
I tried the “music education is dying theory” on the head of music at my local authority . He replied by saying “ that’s funny cos I’ve just ordered 50 clarinets for local schools today .”

[Pulcinella]

It seems to me that in the UK music in schools more generally is heading for extinction, and this is just one symptom. At the same time, the article seems pretty lazy in focusing entirely on what's going on in a single private music school, which may well not be typical. I'm not sure any wider implications ought to be drawn from it!

Be careful not to generalise .It varies from county to county , city to city , even school to school. I know of a music teacher in London. There is plenty of work around for him - for example he teaches a dozen or so piano students in a predominantly Asian / Muslim school (with an outstanding OFSTED grading ) . The only downside is they’ve all plumped for the Bach C maj prelude for their ABRSM! Most of his private students are Chinese some of who are doing Grade 8 in their early teens. There are very many parents at both private and state schools who are very keen for their children to have instrumental and general music tuition.
I tried the “music education is dying theory” on the head of music at my local authority . He replied by saying “ that’s funny cos I’ve just ordered 50 clarinets for local schools today .”

I'd agree with both points made here.
The local primary (admittedly part of an academy group) where I volunteer does quite well music-wise, as I've reported elsewhere, but indeed I don't think that the recorder is much in evidence! They do have a fair number of ukuleles though; not sure which sound I find grates the more! At least it's not bagpipes droning away!

[Mandryka]

Maybe we need a new David Munrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jun/05/recorder-fans-warn-instrument-heading-for-extinction-pandemic-decline-young-people

Oops! Moderator/host: please correct typo in thread title!

Subsequent edit: Thanks!

Christopher Fox's catalogue lists three pieces which use recorder, so in some sense it isn't heading for extinction.

http://www.foxedition.co.uk/Fox_Edition_works.pdf

[RichardB]

Be careful not to generalise

I thought I was being careful not to generalise! But (if I may generalise) education in all arts subjects is suffering from the results of the present tuition fees system so that studying them becomes increasingly a pastime for those with a financial safety net in the form of a privileged upbringing. Of course I'm talking about higher education, but that is where music teachers come from after all.

[teamsaint]

I'd agree with both points made here.
The local primary (admittedly part of an academy group) where I volunteer does quite well music-wise, as I've reported elsewhere, but indeed I don't think that the recorder is much in evidence! They do have a fair number of ukuleles though; not sure which sound I find grates the more! At least it's not bagpipes droning away!

The biggest crowd I ever saw for a busker was a bagpiper in Munich.

I think bagpipe lessons in Primary schools is an excellent idea.
I’m sure they could find volunteers to help out…..

Incidentally, it is 50 years this year since the bagpipes ruled the pop charts.
Edit, it is 51 years, forgot we are in 2023

[DracoM]

[RichardB]

Christopher Fox's catalogue lists three pieces which use recorder, so in some sense it isn't heading for extinction.

I would say that more music is being written for recorder now than at any time since the early 18th century. Many professional recorder players specialise in contemporary repertoire and are active in commissioning and performing new works. I think I've written something like 15 compositions in which one or more recorders appear, including a solo for sopranino recorder and a recorder quartet. Of course none of these were written for musicians based in the UK.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The recorder's problem is that it's perceived as easy. To some extent this is true, but it requires a something that many beginners lack: restraint.

Furthermore, the descant (soprano) recorder is by its very nature rather shrill. The treble (alto) recorder is a far better beginner instrument, though not so good for very young players.

A few years ago, I bought two trebles on the same day from the Early Music Shop in Saltaire. One cost £27, and the other £845. Is one 40x as good as the other? Definitely not, though the more expensive one is noticeable better,

[Pulcinella]

I don't know the concerto mentioned in the article (Richard Harvey's) or indeed the other two pieces on the only recording of it, lined up to listen to later.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8006185--english-recorder-concertos

But I do have a recording of David Bedford's piece: a different recorder for each movement.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7939894--david-bedford-alleluia-timpanis

Great fun (and that from someone who's not a particular fan).

Bagpipes best heard from afar, imho, ts, so being in Munich sounds ideal.

That said, the use of one at Prince Philip's funeral was very impressive and evocative.

I'm not sure which post Draco is responding so enthusiastically to.

I'll ask the peri teacher at school what she thinks. I suspect that Covid (aerosols and general hygiene concerns) will indeed have had a part to play (no pun intended) in any decline in use.

[Sir Velo]

I'm not sure which post Draco is responding so enthusiastically to.

I've provisionally concluded that it was either expressing enthusiasm for the decline of bagpipes in public life, or for their imminent resurgence.

[Old Grumpy]

I've provisionally concluded that it was either expressing enthusiasm for the decline of bagpipes in public life, or for their imminent resurgence.

Scottish bagpipes achieve their object - putting the fear of God into ye...


...Northumbrian pipes, on the other hand can quite tickell your fancy!

[gradus]

I've still got my old wooden Schott descant recorder which occasionally gets a toot but I still can't reliably get the lowest note on the plastic treble one used by my children. Vive la flûte à bec!