International Women's Day

[Boilk]

In my opinion the best women composers were Grace Williams, Priaulx Rainier, Elisabeth Lutyens, Doreen Carwithen and Peggy Glanville-Hicks. Apart from one short voluntary by Rainier (the first broadcast of any of her music in 11 years, I think) I find nothing in today's schedule by these composers. Yet here are Judith Weir, Judith Bingham, Hildegard of Bingen, Cecilia MacDowall and Thea Musgrave yet again in all their dreary, bland dulness, as almost every other week. Why does Radio3 think they're so marvellous and the others so worthy of total neglect? At any rate it's a poor case for the argument that women's music is unfairly overlooked.

Hardly a day or two goes by without R3 broadcasting something by Florence Price, whose music I don't find particularly engaging. Am I missing something? Of course, her gender and ethnicity mean she ticks two boxes, so it's two-for-the-price-of-one in terms of BBC inclusivity.

[jayne lee wilson]

Of course I accept that it's difficult if not impossible, and unwise to try, to apply labels like 'masterpiece', as it always raises the question of where one draws the line and what qualifications one has for doing so.

When I questioned the assertion that 'we can't fill the schedules with masterpieces' I took it to mean that it's necessary for Radio 3 to play a range of classical music which includes much music which frankly isn't 'top drawer' but which is interesting in its way, which sheds light on musical life in history or provides light relief between the heavy stuff: otherwise we'd be playing just Bach and Haydn to Schubert all day long and we'd tire of it; so there has to be room for , say, Jack Moeran's 'Overture for a Masque' or Percy Grainger's 'Harvest Hymn' which aren't masterpieces but provide necessary variety. We can't fill the schedules with masterpieces any more than we can eat only fillet steak and fresh strawberries.

But when I asked 'why can't we?' I was thinking it would be a good experiment to have a week or so when only unquestioned masterpieces were broadcast. I think a lot of people would learn something.

But who, which authority, decides on the (un)question? Vigorous debate would quickly (probably angrily) ensue.....

Still, there are many outstanding pieces from 20th/21st Century to draw upon, from such as - Gubaidulina, Bacewicz, Ustvolskaya, Saariaho, Unsuk Chin, Tabakova, Eliane Radigue....(how often do even these names feature on this forum?)

You could fill days with those, but at least some of them are more often broadcast or recorded now (if in the more recent examples still not often enough). As for IWD, it has come to seem a little redundant in some contexts; but I suspect the composer choice on the day itself will try to include the (even) less often played....the quality less easily judged....

*****
Fiction and Poetry don't seem to need the IWD promotion; filmmakers and directors certainly do!
But childcare and equal pay can't be shouted about loud enough, or often enough!

[CallMePaul]

Now that Radio 3 is recognising women composers throughout the year, rather than just giving them a token day once a year, IWD on Radio 3 is less important than it was. That said, I’ve always found this to be a most interesting day, as we hear much that few of us know, rather than the daily playlist of stuff we’ve heard countless times before.

Why is there never a celebration (BBC or anywhere else) of International Men's Day on 19 November?

[Ein Heldenleben]

But who, which authority, decides on the (un)question? Vigorous debate would quickly (probably angrily) ensue.....

Still, there are many outstanding pieces from 20th/21st Century to draw upon, from such as - Gubaidulina, Bacewicz, Ustvolskaya, Saariaho, Unsuk Chin, Tabakova, Eliane Radigue....(how often do even these names feature on this forum?)

You could fill days with those, but at least some of them are more often broadcast or recorded now (if in the more recent examples still not often enough). As for IWD, it has come to seem a little redundant; I suspect the composer choice on the day itself will try to include the (even) less often played....the quality less easily judged....

*****
Fiction and Poetry don't seem to need the IWD promotion; filmmakers and directors certainly do!
But childcare and equal pay can't be shouted about loud enough, or often enough!

I think we need an all - gender international filmmakers and directors day to be honest .

[kernelbogey]

Am I missing something? Of course, her gender and ethnicity mean she ticks two boxes, so it's two-for-the-price-of-one in terms of BBC inclusivity.

What you may be missing is the issue that women composers, and composers of colour, and those who fall in both those categories have been historically neglected. To suggest that anyone at the BBC is 'ticking boxes' I find offensive. Not to mention that there is something called 'BBC inclusivity' - as though it were alien to the rest of us.

[jayne lee wilson]

What you may be missing is the issue that women composers, and composers of colour, and those who fall in both those categories have been historically neglected. To suggest that anyone at the BBC is 'ticking boxes' I find offensive. Not to mention that there is something called 'BBC inclusivity' - as though it were alien to the rest of us.

[jayne lee wilson]

I think we need an all - gender international filmmakers and directors day to be honest .

How many women have been nominated for best director in Oscars history? 7. How many winners? 3. JUST 3 — Kathryn Bigelow for “The Hurt Locker” (2009), Chloé Zhao for “Nomadland” (2020) and Jane Campion for “The Power of the Dog” (2021)....

Trans and non-binary writers/directors remain largely marginalised arthouse (if you're even that lucky), main exception the Wachowskis, whose mega-hit Matrix franchise predates their (separate) transitioning...

Why on Earth would ALL men need inclusion in such a day?


Zan-Zindagi-Azadi

WOMAN
LIFE
FREEDOM

[Ein Heldenleben]

How many women have been nominated for best director in Oscars history? 7. How many winners? 3. JUST 3 — Kathryn Bigelow for “The Hurt Locker” (2009), Chloé Zhao for “Nomadland” (2020) and Jane Campion for “The Power of the Dog” (2021)....

Trans and non-binary writers/directors remain largely marginalised arthouse (if you're even that lucky), main exception the Wachowskis, whose mega-hit Matrix franchise predates their (separate) transitioning...

Why on Earth would ALL men need inclusion in such a day?

WOMEN
LIFE
FREEDOM

Actually it’s because I was thinking that it’s barely even concerned an art form and , until relatively recently most UK film and TV directors didn’t even get residual royalties on their work. Unlike all other art forms.

[Pulcinella]

What you may be missing is the issue that women composers, and composers of colour, and those who fall in both those categories have been historically neglected. To suggest that anyone at the BBC is 'ticking boxes' I find offensive. Not to mention that there is something called 'BBC inclusivity' - as though it were alien to the rest of us.

To think that that is NOT part of the exercise is, in my view, incredibly naive.
Do you really think they are doing this without more than half an eye on the inclusivity ratings they can give in their annual reports?

[jayne lee wilson]

To think that that is NOT part of the exercise is, in my view, incredibly naive.
Do you really think they are doing this without more than half an eye on the inclusivity ratings they can give in their annual reports?

But isn't that incredibly (and sweepingly) cynical?
Surely "they" - producers and programmers - might, might just, care about such causes...?


Zan-Zindagi-Azadi

[Ein Heldenleben]

To think that that is NOT part of the exercise is, in my view, incredibly naive.
Do you really think they are doing this without more than half an eye on the inclusivity ratings they can give in their annual reports?

I don’t know about now but certainly twenty years ago diversity targets were all about keeping the boss happy. Having said that and being proud of being one of the very first media managers to introduce diversity training bursaries I really think the media for years and years dragged its feet when we should have been trailblazers . It’s very easy to hit portrayal targets - slap on a CD from a black female composer - it’s much harder to diversify the employment base because you are trying to rectify inequalities which pretty much start at birth.

[jayne lee wilson]

Why is there never a celebration (BBC or anywhere else) of International Men's Day on 19 November?

How would you promote it?


Zan-Zindagi-Azadi

[Pulcinella]

But isn't that incredibly (and sweepingly) cynical?
Surely "they" - producers and programmers - might, might just, care about such causes...?


Zan-Zindagi-Azadi

Oh! I'm an arch-cynic.
And I'm not even sure that producers and programmers will have that much leeway anyway.
There will be diktats from on high, surely.

[RichardB]

I've been listening to music composed by women all day today, although without the help of the BBC: Beatriz Ferreyra, Barbara Strozzi, Eliane Radigue and Francesca Caccini.

[kernelbogey]

To think that that is NOT part of the exercise is, in my view, incredibly naive.
Do you really think they are doing this without more than half an eye on the inclusivity ratings they can give in their annual reports?

Fortunately, my capacity for taking offence is not subject to anyone's view of my naivety, credible or otherwise.

I thought the post itself ticked two boxes: (possibly unconscious) racism and (possibly unconscious) misogyny.