Opera in English

[JasonPalmer]

I am enjoying this aria from the magic flute in German on intune mixtape but it reminded me of one of my campaigns that opera should be in English at Covent Garden, when living in Dublin I came across an autobiography by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Clark where he stated that was the idea but they couldn't find enough English singers.

Still, I enjoyed the eno and some Chandos opera in English cds.

How about you ?

Do you prefer in English or the original, do you speak many languages so it does not bother you ?

[Cockney Sparrow]

I can understand why Opera in English has its advocates, but it has a practical problem.

I think formalities and bureaucracy imposed by Johnson's choice of Brexit deal (and maybe, as a speculation, a restraint on fee levels?) has already made it difficult to get singers of star quality or at the top of their game. Those artists, as I understand it, wouldn't see any logic in learning a role in English when they could potentially sing it anywhere in the world in the language it was composed in.

I'd rather see the international artists. Preparation, combined with the surtitles, works well for me at Covent Garden.

[Master Jacques]

I can understand why Opera in English has its advocates, but it has a practical problem.

I think formalities and bureaucracy imposed by Johnson's choice of Brexit deal (and maybe, as a speculation, a restraint on fee levels?) has already made it difficult to get singers of star quality or at the top of their game. Those artists, as I understand it, wouldn't see any logic in learning a role in English when they could potentially sing it anywhere in the world in the language it was composed in.

I'd rather see the international artists. Preparation, combined with the surtitles, works well for me at Covent Garden.

One of the - disappointed - hopes of Brexit was that it ought to have given British singers the chances they were given at Covent Garden during the post-war years, when the county could not afford to pay stellar prices for Italian and German opera stars. If we look at the performance rosters for the Royal Opera during those years, we might be surprised to find the large number of productions that were played in English. And that system produced a host of wonderful star singers, now sadly departed.

Nobody would need to ask the overpaid global divas and divos to learn roles in English, if only we gave the chances we should to our own, home-bred and home-trained singers. That is what's going wrong here. Wagner, Puccini and Janacek would have been appalled to find their works crucified at Covent Garden, by being sung in "original" languages which audiences - and often, large parts of the cast - do not understand.

Of course Vaughan Williams too had plenty to say (none of it polite!) about those he rudely called "prigs and snobs", who insisted on demanding operas in their original languages, reducing them in the process to some sort of swanky concerts in costume - and, incidentally, taking up space which ought (in his opinion) to have been given to new operas in the vernacular. Opera is now, more or less, a dead museum here, as it has failed so dismally to properly foster English-language work in quantity.

This sort of an argument was a non-argument, when there were proper alternatives. Sadler's Wells/ENO could be relied upon to keep 'opera as drama' alive in London. Now that is no longer the case, the Royal Opera surely has a basic duty to taxpayers - and British singers no longer able to further their careers in Europe - to employ more local singers in major roles, and to perform more operas in a language which their audience understands.

That's how matters are arranged in (say) Budapest or Prague, and I really must say that I haven't noticed that vocal or musical standards have suffered there as a result. Quite the reverse, in fact. On purely musical grounds, I'd rather see Verdi sung well in Hungarian or Czech, than sung badly in Italian by second-rate globetrotters here in the UK.

Rant over!

[JasonPalmer]

Excellent rant !

[RichardB]

Those artists, as I understand it, wouldn't see any logic in learning a role in English when they could potentially sing it anywhere in the world in the language it was composed in.

There's also the fact that composers of vocal music in general and opera in particular are generally concerned with a unity between music and language, so that even the most sensitive translation is going to alter the sound of the music to some degree or other - perhaps not so much in some cases, but quite radically in the case of a composer like Janáček whose music was explicitly based on the rhythms and intonations of Czech.

[Petrushka]

When, very many years ago, I was listening to Das Rheingold (or, rather, The Rhinegold) in English from ENO I found myself simultaneously translating it back into the original German and translating that back into the English translation I knew that came with my LPs.

Original language every time especially as you can't tell what people are singing even if it's in English!

[JasonPalmer]

When, very many years ago, I was listening to Das Rheingold (or, rather, The Rhinegold) in English from ENO I found myself simultaneously translating it back into the original German and translating that back into the English translation I knew that came with my LPs.

Original language every time especially as you can't tell what people are singing even if it's in English!

Have noted chandos recordings particularly good for actually hearing the words, advantage of a studio environment I suspect. Experimenting at the coliseum led me to discover the stalls were a particularly good location.

[Master Jacques]

There's also the fact that composers of vocal music in general and opera in particular are generally concerned with a unity between music and language, so that even the most sensitive translation is going to alter the sound of the music to some degree or other - perhaps not so much in some cases, but quite radically in the case of a composer like Janáček whose music was explicitly based on the rhythms and intonations of Czech.

That's true, though I should say "often" rather than "generally" (as many composers work against the flow of the language they're setting). And the solution for the best translators is often to alter those vocal lines to work better with English. That is what Janacek himself wanted, and got from the Sadler's Wells translators under Mackerras in the 1950s and 60s who made his work popular here. His music is not about Italianate "line", so changing the odd phrase here and there does no harm whatsoever.

[Master Jacques]

When, very many years ago, I was listening to Das Rheingold (or, rather, The Rhinegold) in English from ENO I found myself simultaneously translating it back into the original German and translating that back into the English translation I knew that came with my LPs.

As I'm sure you know, many Germans who came over to see the famous 1970s ENO Ring (drawn hither by Hunter, Bailey, Remedios et al.) said - after hearing Andrew Porter's English translation - that they were grateful to understand Wagner's text for the first time.

I challenge anyone who doesn't have a deep understanding of archaic German to get much out of (let's say) Wotan's narration in Act 2 of The Valkyrie. Yet hear it in the vernacular, and it can be (in the right hands) totally gripping, memorable drama. That's why Wagner wanted it sung here in English - although the problem in his time, was that Covent Garden demanded that almost everything (even English operas by the likes of Stanford) had to be sung in .... Italian!!

[Master Jacques]

Have noted chandos recordings particularly good for actually hearing the words, advantage of a studio environment I suspect. Experimenting at the coliseum led me to discover the stalls were a particularly good location.

Quite so. It's such a pleasure to be able to watch the stage and listen to the words, from the Coliseum stalls, rather than have our eyes glued to a point so far above the proscenium arch that we completely miss what's happening on stage. A singer like Nicky Spence doesn't need surtitles at all, and thank goodness for him!

[ChandlersFord]

I don't like opera in English at all. Even operas composed in English, I'd prefer to hear sung in other languages.

I don't think English is an operatic language, and that's a personal opinion.

Surtitles mean we don't need to hear an opera translated from its native language ever again.

[Master Jacques]

I don't like opera in English at all. Even operas composed in English, I'd prefer to hear sung in other languages.

I don't think English is an operatic language, and that's a personal opinion.

Surtitles mean we don't need to hear an opera translated from its native language ever again.

How admirably simple! It's as if the whole "prima le parole, dopo la musica" argument (which stretches back to pre-Monteverdi and has been raging ever since) had never existed.

Beyond your contention, surtitles actually mean we don't have to watch the stage ever again. The most depressing sound in the opera house is the sound of laughter when the surtitles tell us a joke, five seconds or so before the character sings the line. That's what surtitles do for opera. They kill the music drama stone dead.

Of course, there may be some Italians who prefer to sit through Hamlet in English, which makes about as much sense as me sitting through L'elisir d'amore in Italian. Especially with surtitles, which remove all of Donizetti's freshness and spontaneity at one dull stroke. How very lazy we've become.

[ChandlersFord]

How admirably simple! It's as if the whole "prima le parole, dopo la musica" argument (which stretches back to pre-Monteverdi and has been raging ever since) had never existed.

Beyond your contention, surtitles actually mean we don't have to watch the stage ever again. The most depressing sound in the opera house is the sound of laughter when the surtitles tell us a joke, five seconds or so before the character sings the line. That's what surtitles do for opera. They kill the music drama stone dead.

Of course, there may be some Italians who prefer to sit through Hamlet in English, which makes about as much sense as me sitting through L'elisir d'amore in Italian. Especially with surtitles, which remove all of Donizetti's freshness and spontaneity at one dull stroke. How very lazy we've become.

If you've done your prep, you don't need to look at the subtitles, though. And I always do my prep! :)

[gurnemanz]

English works fine as a sung language, including opera, eg Britten, Purcell. In song it dominates the international scene in rock, pop, musicals and jazz vocal but we also have a wealth of English-language art songs and folk songs.

I don't like opera translated into English, since I want to hear the text as set by the composer. Surtitles are a great benefit if one does not know the opera in question so well or understand its original language and I am not worried about some occasional out-of-synch laughter.

[Dave2002]

Original language every time especially as you can't tell what people are singing even if it's in English!

That’s not an invariable rule. I distinctly remember one opera with the line “Swan Vestas’.