Four Last Songs

[RichardB]

Yes, I realised belatedly that what you had doubts about was whether his orchestration was "authentically Straussian".

Not "doubts"; I just wondered. I wasn't thinking such a thing should be particularly interesting or desirable in itself. ("Authentically Rihmian", on the other hand, would be very difficult to pin down, given that his music seems always to be referring to something else.) Something that sounded like Strauss would be possible for very many people to do (I don't think I personally would be able to pull that off, but who knows), whereas something that sounded like nothing on earth might be more interesting!

[Rover_KE]

Many thanks to all respondents.

[RichardB]

Returning for a moment to Rihm's orchestration of "Malven": hack work. It doesn't sound to me like what Strauss would have done, or like anything fresh and different, but just like a straight transcription of the piano part by reassigning its notes to instruments without any thought or imagination. It's a shame that Rihm couldn't be bothered to do more than that.

[Joseph K]

Returning for a moment to Rihm's orchestration of "Malven": hack work. It doesn't sound to me like what Strauss would have done, or like anything fresh and different, but just like a straight transcription of the piano part by reassigning its notes to instruments without any thought or imagination. It's a shame that Rihm couldn't be bothered to do more than that.

You've reminded me of how incredibly tedious the orchestration modules were on my degree course!

[Serial_Apologist]

Returning for a moment to Rihm's orchestration of "Malven": hack work. It doesn't sound to me like what Strauss would have done, or like anything fresh and different, but just like a straight transcription of the piano part by reassigning its notes to instruments without any thought or imagination. It's a shame that Rihm couldn't be bothered to do more than that.

Yes, sometimes these orchestral arrangements do disappoint. Ravel's of Moussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition were deplored by many otherwise Ravelian enthusiasts a few years ago on this or the previous forum, although I think it's OK - one should hear the "original" Koussevitsky recording of 1924 (I think) which, for me at any rate, transcends even the inevitable poor audio quality of its time. Ravel was in the room on that occasion and possibly had some input on the result. Colin Matthews' arrangements of the Debussy Préludes challenge those who separate the composer's ear for novel piano sonorities from his orchestral technique - apart from the failure to achieve the sheer overwhelming power of the original Feux d'artifice; but none have superseded Koechlin's out-Debussying of Debussy in the latter's Khamma. Debussy wrote of being thrilled by the effectiveness of the trumpets at one point, and I think I know where.

[Maclintick]

Colin Matthews' arrangements of the Debussy Préludes challenge those who separate the composer's ear for novel piano sonorities from his orchestral technique - apart from the failure to achieve the sheer overwhelming power of the original Feux d'artifice

I often feel that orchestrations, perhaps especially in the case of Ravel's of Mussorgsky's Pictures, tend to dilute the nascent modernism of the piano original. You mention Feux D'Artifice. In a recital of Bk.2 Préludes it's as if CD intends to kill off the pianist by demanding that they scale this Everest (or K2, even worse) at the conclusion. Tom Borrow chose it as an encore after the Ravel G Major at this year's Proms, and I was heartened to overhear some younger members of the audience who had never encountered it obviously blown away, assuming that it was a contemporary piece.

[RichardB]

I have to say I prefer Ravel's Pictures to the original, which strikes me as somewhat unsubtle, although maybe I'm looking for the wrong things in it so I'm not wedded to that view. Anyway, Ravel was one of the great orchestrators of all time, which can't be said either of Matthews or Rihm. If I had to think of another orchestration of piano music on that sort of level I would mention Holliger's arrangements of two late Liszt pieces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l87GI4fCgRM

[Joseph K]

If I had to think of another orchestration of piano music on that sort of level I would mention Holliger's arrangements of two late Liszt pieces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l87GI4fCgRM

Oh, wow - thanks for bringing this to our attention!

[Pulcinella]

Anybody know (and rate) this?

Brahms: Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, Op. 24 - Orchestrated by Edmund Rubbra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-UIknVuZug

[smittims]

Oh yes, I used to have the Ormandy recording. I enjoyed it, as the original has, for some reason I can't explain, never appealed to me, unlike Brahms' other piano works.