Four Last Songs

[Rover_KE]

Did the composers of Four Last Songs deliberately call them that, knowing they had no intention of writing any more, or did they get that title after their deaths?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In the case of the Strauss cycle, it was put together after the composer’s death, so it’s unlikely.

[smittims]

I think the same applies to the Vaughan Williams.

[RichardB]

"Strauss scholars have long debated whether the composer actually considered the four last orchestral songs a complete unit. The songs were published posthumously by Boosey and Hawkes under the title Vier letzte Lieder, which originated with [Ernst] Roth [senior editor at B & H]."

(Timothy L Jackson in Richard Strauss and his World, Princeton University Press 1992, p. 91)

[ahinton]

"Strauss scholars have long debated whether the composer actually considered the four last orchestral songs a complete unit. The songs were published posthumously by Boosey and Hawkes under the title Vier letzte Lieder, which originated with [Ernst] Roth [senior editor at B & H]."

(Timothy L Jackson in Richard Strauss and his World, Princeton University Press 1992, p. 91)

This is broadly endorsed by Norman del Mar in his excellent three volume study of Strauss in which he adds that Roth determined for publication the order of the four as we know it today.

[LHC]

As there is a ‘fifth’ last song, which was discovered in 1984, it is even more unlikely that Strauss would have chosen the title Four Last Songs. The song Malven was completed in Montreux on 23 November 1948, some two months after Strauss had written September, the last of the Four Last Songs.

[RichardB]

As there is a ‘fifth’ last song, which was discovered in 1984, it is even more unlikely that Strauss would have chosen the title Four Last Songs. The song Malven was completed in Montreux on 23 November 1948, some two months after Strauss had written September, the last of the Four Last Songs.

Although "Malven" wasn't orchestrated of course. Interestingly enough, Timothy Jackson, in the essay I quoted above, notes that Strauss made an orchestration of the 1894 song "Ruhe, meine Seele" in 1948, just after composing "Im Abendrot", with which it shares motivic similarities, and suggests that indeed there should be five "last songs" in the cycle, with "Ruhe, meine Seele" acting as a prelude to "Im Abendrot".

[ahinton]

Although "Malven" wasn't orchestrated of course. Interestingly enough, Timothy Jackson, in the essay I quoted above, notes that Strauss made an orchestration of the 1894 song "Ruhe, meine Seele" in 1948, just after composing "Im Abendrot", with which it shares motivic similarities, and suggests that indeed there should be five "last songs" in the cycle, with "Ruhe, meine Seele" acting as a prelude to "Im Abendrot".

That's interesting.

I recall that there was some discussion several years ago between Colin Matthews and Oliver Knussen about orchestrating Malven but, as far as I am aware, this came to nothing.

[french frank]

I recall that there was some discussion several years ago between Colin Matthews and Oliver Knussen about orchestrating Malven but, as far as I am aware, this came to nothing.

https://www.boosey.com/cr/music/Rich...-Malven/101108 ?

[RichardB]

https://www.boosey.com/cr/music/Rich...-Malven/101108 ?

I wouldn't mind taking a look at that. I imagine that Rihm would know very well how to make an authentically Straussian orchestration; but whether he actually did is another matter.

[french frank]

I wouldn't mind taking a look at that. I imagine that Rihm would know very well how to make an authentically Straussian orchestration; but whether he actually did is another matter.

I think there's at least one YouTube recording.

[smittims]

Having checked Kennedy* I recall that VW's 'four last songs' (his publisher's title) were the completed parts of two intended sets. By common consent VW didn't see his career as ending , even after the Ninth symphony.

On the other hand , A E Housman published his 'Last Poems' well before his death , and went on to write more poems , whch he then published , unabashed, under the title 'More Poems'!

-------------------------------

*A catalogue of the works of Ralph Vaughan Williams (OUP).

[ahinton]

https://www.boosey.com/cr/music/Rich...-Malven/101108 ?

Many thanks; perhaps this is why the Matthews / Knussen discussions appear to have borne no fruit (I suppose that I could ask Colin what he knows about this - no way of asking Olly, sadly)...

[RichardB]

I think there's at least one YouTube recording.

What I had in mind was taking a look at the score... but yes, thanks, it was a fair bet that it would also be available on Youtube. Bookmarked for listening this evening. Although "Malven" itself is a pretty but not particularly significant song; I don't think it would have attracted even the attention that it has were it not his last completed work.

[french frank]

What I had in mind was taking a look at the score...

Yes, I realised belatedly that what you had doubts about was whether his orchestration was "authentically Straussian".