If you could control Radio 3...

[french frank]

I am told that Radio 4's documentaries about art music are geared to more general audiences, leaving the 'specialised' material to Radio 3. It that's the case, Radio 3 must be catering for a specialised audience drawn mainly from inanely smiling babies and insomniacs.

If the R4 listeners don't want any music on R4 - all music/documentaries, even for the general audience, on R3, that mirrors the situation with R2 listeners 10 or so years ago who (according to their messageboards) didn't want any 'gerry' (geriatric) music on R2, by which they meant the light orchestral of the Brian Kay variety, music theatre. R2 was for popular music - meaning what was popular in the 60s and 70s (now I suppose in the 80s and 90s too). That was the time that Brian Kay's Light Programme came over to R3, along with Stage and Screen for film and music theatre. Now there's a rather different style of 'non classical' music arriving with Piano Flow, Downtime Symphony, Happy Harmonies - plus Classical Fix and This Classical Life to lure in new listeners.

None of these new arrivals cater for what has been picturesqusly termed 'the Whingeing Old Guard', the purists, the traditionalists. When you add the broadcasting style and content of 'classical' programmes like Breakfast and Essential Classics, it doesn't leave much time for anything in-depth, erudite, music and musical/arts discussion, drama: in short, what R3 used to be for.

[smittims]

I wonder if 'they' (R3 management, the BBC, or the government) are looking forward to the older R3 listeners dying so they can increase the 'dumb-flow'.

But I don't know how many young people care seriously about classical music; how many are like Max in his parents' house listening to the Third because he couldn't afford records, or me , picking up a 78 of Elgar for tuppence and being converted for life. Oh for some solidarity; if all those who felt this way wrote to their MPs what might happen?

[Master Jacques]

Yesterday's 'Front Row' on Vaughan Williams was certainly, I thought, aimed at listeners who don't mind having classical music on inthe background and sometimes wished they knew more about it. I hope Radio 3 will keep above that level.

I must agree that it was thin and often lazy, apart from the communicative and intelligent Neil Brand, talking about the film music but spiralling out interestingly into RVW's wider symphonic world. One contributor (who should have known better) even repeated the old canard, placing the German insult "Das Land ohne Musik" as an accurate, 19th comment on Victorian times. Historically, the phrase only achieved infamy when German musicologists were (inaccurately) trying to reclaim Handel as their own, for propaganda purposes during World War 1.

[french frank]

But I don't know how many young people care seriously about classical music; how many are like Max in his parents' house listening to the Third because he couldn't afford records, or me , picking up a 78 of Elgar for tuppence and being converted for life.

But we had the advantage of either knowledgeable parents or, in my case, an elder brother, to start us out. And R3 was there to take over.

Oh for some solidarity; if all those who felt this way wrote to their MPs what might happen?

Been there, done that. MPs now, if they have the remotest interest in classical music, listen to CFM - and even turn their noses up at R3. Those who don't seem to remain hidden. Most MPs gravitate towards the popular music of their own vintage, and consider they have 'discriminating, musical tastes', if they listen to 6 Music.

[Master Jacques]

[...] None of these new arrivals cater for what has been picturesquely termed 'the Whingeing Old Guard', the purists, the traditionalists. When you add the broadcasting style and content of 'classical' programmes like Breakfast and Essential Classics, it doesn't leave much time for anything in-depth, erudite, music and musical/arts discussion, drama: in short, what R3 used to be for.

Your post is depressingly accurate. In a broadcasting diaspora which works against giving quality time - or even lip service - to what used to be called 'high art', there seems to be no point to the anodyne, vaguely snobby 'entertainment' channel which Radio 3 is fast becoming.

As the poet-artist David Jones declared would happen, with the rise of mass media the old liberal creed - nurturing the humanities as a civilising bastion, to balance the demonic forces of science and technology - has withered and died under populist commercialism. The tiny islands (like the 'old' Radio 3) which stood out against those forces have been progressively drowned. Its guardians can see it happening, but can do little or nothing about the rising tide.

We can't blame the younger generation for failing to show an interest in anything better than wall-to-wall, Anglo-American commercial pop. When their parents and 'influencers' are already completely in thrall to that, no wonder the children are groomed as cash cow consumers, rather than encouraged to engage with anything deeper or more sustaining. And little wonder that mental illness is becoming endemic for our young.

[DracoM]

<< We can't blame the younger generation for failing to show an interest in anything better than wall-to-wall, Anglo-American commercial pop. When their parents and 'influencers' are already completely in thrall to that, no wonder the children are groomed as cash cow consumers, rather than encouraged to engage with anything deeper or more sustaining. And little wonder that mental illness is becoming endemic for our young. >>

So, so frighteningly true. What the heck Forumistas, and, more relevantly, the whole music industry can do about this remains to be seen. And this IS an industry prob - careers etc, quite apart from cultural devastation implicit in the quote above.

[oddoneout]

[QUOTE=Master Jacques;893742
We can't blame the younger generation for failing to show an interest in anything better than wall-to-wall, Anglo-American commercial pop. When their parents and 'influencers' are already completely in thrall to that, no wonder the children are groomed as cash cow consumers, rather than encouraged to engage with anything deeper or more sustaining. And little wonder that mental illness is becoming endemic for our young.[/QUOTE]

In the spirit of not making assumptions about a person's music choices I took this at face value

‘I am the most inclusive listener of all time’

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/sep/19/steve-aoki-honest-playlist

A parallel issue (which management sort of recognises but is incapable of dealing with sensibly) is this kind of thing

I've listened to BBC radio all my life, and have yet to get to an age where I would consider Radio 3 a viable alternative to any radio station. Age is a fundamental when it comes to R3.

among the comments to this article https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ment-158710532