Tired of music?

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  • RichardB
    Banned
    • Nov 2021
    • 2170

    Tired of music?

    Yesterday I came across an article in the Guardian headlined "Bring that beat back: why are people in their 30s giving up on music?"

    Near the beginning, the author says: "For the last few years, I have felt the inescapable disappearance of music from my friends’ lives. Even people with whom I have longstanding relationships that were born from a shared love of music have simply let it go, or let it fade deep into the background. A 2015 study of people’s listening habits on Spotify found that most people stop listening to new music at 33; a 2018 report by Deezer had it at 30. In my 20s, the idea that people’s appetite to consume new music regularly would be switched off like some kind of tap was ludicrous. However, now I’m 36, it’s difficult to argue with."

    As the article makes clear, "music" here is taken to mean "pop music". It's not difficult to see (although not mentioned by the author!) why this might be: new pop music might simply be going through a phase of not being very interesting, and/or it generally deals with issues which are shall we say more real to most people in their teens and 20s. But it set me thinking about whether and how this phenomenon might be parallelled in other musical areas. Do some people also get sated by classical music or jazz when other responsibilities enter their lives? Or do the people referenced in this article stop listening to pop music and move on to Bach and Beethoven or Miles and Monk? My tentative thought is that current listening technology has tended to level everything out in the pop music world and so people might well get bored with it, whereas in other areas it has suddenly made previously obscure musics readily available, which might have the opposite effect? These are unformed thoughts - maybe others here have something more coherent to say?
    Last edited by RichardB; 18-08-22, 15:26.
  • Pulcinella
    Host
    • Feb 2014
    • 10950

    #2
    Apparently (probably not the same article, but I'm sure in a recent Guardian) young folk are also giving up on fish and chips!
    You wouldn't have guessed from what I witnessed in Whitby on Tuesday!


    (Apologies for being somewhat off topic!)

    PS: article here

    Last edited by Pulcinella; 18-08-22, 15:09. Reason: PS added!

    Comment

    • Master Jacques
      Full Member
      • Feb 2012
      • 1883

      #3
      I think you put it very coherently, Richard.

      For 'music' in the national media (including BBC TV and Radio) read 'pop music'. We've slipped into a society where populism is de rigeur, and where - despite lip service being paid to individuality - air time can be given (as on Radio 4 yesterday) to a professional child psychologist who considers that empathy is "the ability of the child to adapt to peer values". If conformity - that is, following the herd - is the gold standard in an increasingly grey world, where to admit to liking art music is under suspicion of being eccentric, elitist or both, we're in a bad cultural place.

      Personally, I know several children who loved art music in their early teens, but who've had it drummed out of them by peer pressure. One extremely musical boy actually gave up the cello (with which he was outstandingly gifted) under mocking bombardment from his school chums. The herd won, and I found that very sad indeed.

      If a lot of younger members of society are getting bored with the pap thrust at them by Anglo-American commercial corporations, that can only be a good thing. If they are reaching beyond the dross to develop interests in areas where music is less easily judged by its monetary value, all the better.

      One of the great fallacies of marketing - whether in more sophisticated sports or the arts - is to spend all available time and money desperately dumbing down the product to woo "young consumers", who don't have the time or money to invest anyway. Many wiser observers down the centuries have seen that maturity (and relative financial independence) are the key drivers to developing an interest in deeper and more lasting experiences than are offered by 21st century commercial music. The increasing weight on nostalgia - the fifties and sixties are two generations away, now, but you'd never know it - is an indication that contemporary Anglo-American commercial pop is dying on its feet. And a good thing too, whatever grows out of the rubble to take its place.

      (That's a lot less coherent than your opener, I'm afraid!)

      Comment

      • Bryn
        Banned
        • Mar 2007
        • 24688

        #4
        Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
        Apparently (probably not the same article, but I'm sure in a recent Guardian) young folk are also giving up on fish and chips!
        You wouldn't have guessed from what I witnessed in Whitby on Tuesday!


        (Apologies for being somewhat off topic!)

        PS: article here

        https://www.theguardian.com/food/202...fish-and-chips
        It's the cost of fish and chip from chippy that puts me off. Three evenings ago, I had a lucky find of 4 plaice fillets for a little over £1 in the local Tesco short-dated cabinet. Checking out the labelling it transpired that though previously frozen, they were fit for refreezing. One was fried up as soon as I got home, the others went into the freezer but have all been rethawed, fried and consumed, now. Oh, and I got a couple of tuna steaks, also at knock-down price, which are still in the freezer.

        Comment

        • Joseph K
          Banned
          • Oct 2017
          • 7765

          #5
          Yes, the irritating thing about the article is the use of the word 'music'. As though dedicating oneself to music means checking out as many of the latest pop music acts as possible.

          From the author's logic, I guess most people of this forum have lost interest in music! I dislike how the author conceives of music.

          Comment

          • Ein Heldenleben
            Full Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 6786

            #6
            I think what’s happened is that the all- pervasiveness of music ( it is literally everywhere :e,g, games , tv sport, drama, film) has meant that fewer people consciously put on an album and listen to it to the exclusion of other activities. It started I suppose with the 78 disc then accelerated rapidly with radio , the Walkman (crucial) , iPod and now mobile phone. I doubt if in human history there has been one (non utility) creative product that has generated as much income and employment as the music business does now. Even a very moderately successful pop singer can pull in £50,000 a year with a 5,000 fanbase (if the music press is to be believed ). If a few people are jaded with it all I think that’s because pop and rock is stuck in a huge creative rut. Step forward Adele and Ed Sheeran..
            And as for this years prom commissions…hmmm

            Comment

            • Dave2002
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 18021

              #7
              Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
              Personally, I know several children who loved art music in their early teens, but who've had it drummed out of them by peer pressure. One extremely musical boy actually gave up the cello (with which he was outstandingly gifted) under mocking bombardment from his school chums. The herd won, and I found that very sad indeed.
              I think I know several people who have had similar experiences, and some who are/were clearly very talented and musical, and some who could "merely" recognise and memorise almost any tune including all the words on first hearing. It's not very fashionable to admit to liking any of this, sadly.

              Peer pressure works in several ways - and it can really be a problem in the UK. The issues in other countries are different - though still problematic. In Sweden for example, there is peer pressure not to show off or be the first person to answer any question. Kids at school may soon get the message not to try, and worse than that I've even heard of parents complaining to other parents about their children's precocity. In the US kids who aren't required to wear school uniform often all tend to wear pretty much the same outfits - and will even phone each other up to make sure that they are all wearing the "correct" things for the day. That is, arguably, relatively harmless - but some outcomes of peer pressure are more harmful - such as in deprived areas where gang warfare may be prevalent. There may be pressure to join gangs, even if some kids don't really want to. The consequences of that can be very sad.

              However I have also heard of students who were able in some fields, such as music performance, somehow becoming champions and heroes - and supported even by people who might in other circumstances ridicule and jeer at them for their preferences and ability. For example if someone is seen to be in a regional or national competition, they might be cheered on by others - a sort of herd support- particularly it they stand a chance of being recognised or winning.

              Comment

              • kernelbogey
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 5749

                #8
                Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                the all- pervasiveness of music
                I have just been exploring an app for a newly-purchased Interrail Pass. There is a short video explaining what to do. The visuals are accompanied by a repetitive, plinky-plonky set of sounds that (for me) distract from the visuals. Yet this is now a norm. Even the BBC World Service runs this plinky-plonky stuff behind the presenter announcing the headlines, or programme content. Presumably the programme makers believe that this is essential to hold people's attention: or perhaps they have created this belief (and need) by virtue of their faith in the need for it.

                Comment

                • RichardB
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2021
                  • 2170

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                  Yes, the irritating thing about the article is the use of the word 'music'. As though dedicating oneself to music means checking out as many of the latest pop music acts as possible.

                  From the author's logic, I guess most people of this forum have lost interest in music! I dislike how the author conceives of music.
                  This is a very concise and accurate way of putting it, I think. And actually I myself did lose interest in checking out as many of the latest pop acts as possible at some point in my 20s. Occasionally I still find something by a new artist that attracts my attention but so much of it is derivative of this or that inventive act from the 1960s or 1970s that I can't be bothered to search actively for the experience, especially when there are so many people outside the pop music world who are creating new music all the time. (but not, as EH says, those responsible for current Proms commissions.)

                  Comment

                  • Ein Heldenleben
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 6786

                    #10
                    Originally posted by RichardB View Post
                    This is a very concise and accurate way of putting it, I think. And actually I myself did lose interest in checking out as many of the latest pop acts as possible at some point in my 20s. Occasionally I still find something by a new artist that attracts my attention but so much of it is derivative of this or that inventive act from the 1960s or 1970s that I can't be bothered to search actively for the experience, especially when there are so many people outside the pop music world who are creating new music all the time. (but not, as EH says, those responsible for current Proms commissions.)
                    I suppose strictly speaking these Proms commissions are “new music “ . But when I heard the Feldman Rothko Chapel music the other night as a short recorded extract after an interminable new Proms work - I had a bit of epiphany . The good is eternally “new” …

                    Comment

                    • RichardB
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2021
                      • 2170

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                      I had a bit of epiphany. The good is eternally “new” …
                      Absolutely. And, I think, in order to be so, it has to respond to its own time and place rather than just being a symptom of it - the example I always bring up here is the St Matthew Passion, which was conceived and written for a very specific time, place, tradition and audience, and responds so deeply to these circumstances that it retains that depth for other times and places too. The same thing could be said about the Feldman piece, in its own way. There's always more to discover, and a great deal of it is in music one already knows.

                      Comment

                      • Ein Heldenleben
                        Full Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 6786

                        #12
                        Originally posted by RichardB View Post
                        Absolutely. And, I think, in order to be so, it has to respond to its own time and place rather than just being a symptom of it - the example I always bring up here is the St Matthew Passion, which was conceived and written for a very specific time, place, tradition and audience, and responds so deeply to these circumstances that it retains that depth for other times and places too. The same thing could be said about the Feldman piece, in its own way. There's always more to discover, and a great deal of it is in music one already knows.
                        Rothko Chapel has been performed precisely once at the Proms out of a grand total of three Feldman pieces.

                        Comment

                        • Pulcinella
                          Host
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 10950

                          #13
                          Originally posted by RichardB View Post
                          Absolutely. And, I think, in order to be so, it has to respond to its own time and place rather than just being a symptom of it - the example I always bring up here is the St Matthew Passion, which was conceived and written for a very specific time, place, tradition and audience, and responds so deeply to these circumstances that it retains that depth for other times and places too. The same thing could be said about the Feldman piece, in its own way. There's always more to discover, and a great deal of it is in music one already knows.
                          Wasn't the Feldman piece written (at least in part) In memoriam Stravinsky?
                          (I'm too lazy to check the CD liner notes!)

                          Comment

                          • Bryn
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 24688

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                            Wasn't the Feldman piece written (at least in part) In memoriam Stravinsky?
                            (I'm too lazy to check the CD liner notes!)
                            Not that I was aware of. https://www.universaledition.com/mor...ko-chapel-4462

                            Comment

                            • Ein Heldenleben
                              Full Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 6786

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                              Wasn't the Feldman piece written (at least in part) In memoriam Stravinsky?
                              (I'm too lazy to check the CD liner notes!)
                              The soprano melody was written the day of Stravinsky’s funeral. But that’s the only connection .

                              How composer Morton Feldman turned his artist friend's paintings into rapt, devotional music. By Richard Williams.

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