If only…

[pastoralguy]

Although I’m not a Dr. Who fan I’ve been much taken by a YouTube segment where the Dr. uses time travel to take Van Gogh into the future to see the profound effect his work has had on people in the future. There’s a particularly lovely moment where the curator of the museum, (played by Bill Nighy), gives a homily about the greatness of his work and what it has meant to the world.

I’ve often wondered, should it be possible, how all the composers we revere would feel if they could visit the future and see how their music has affected us. I remember visiting the HMV shop in London with a friend and saying if only Beethoven could see all these different recordings and performances of his music and how loved it is to people today.

[RichardB]

if only Beethoven could see all these different recordings and performances of his music and how loved it is to people today.

He'd probably say "obviously everyone has eventually realised what a genius I was" and stalk off in search of the nearest restaurant!

[Bryn]

He'd probably say "obviously everyone has eventually realised what a genius I was" and stalk off in search of the nearest restaurant!

I think he might well blow his top over the dragged-out tempi so often imposed on his work.

[cloughie]

I think he might well blow his top over the dragged-out tempi so often imposed on his work.

Or possibly not, but it clearly upsets you Bryn!

[Bryn]

Or possibly not, but it clearly upsets you Bryn!

Contemporary reports of his ire at performances adopting slower tempi than he intended are what I base my suggestion upon. Admittedly, the situation was not helped by copying and printing errors, such as the substitution of common time for cut time in the 'slow' movement of the 5th Piano Concerto.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think he might well blow his top over the dragged-out tempi so often imposed on his work.

Maybe, but I’m quite sure he’d be more than delighted with the sustaining power of modern pianos, enabling us to actually hear the long sustained notes he wrote in Op.111.

[RichardB]

I’m quite sure he’d be more than delighted with the sustaining power of modern pianos

here we go

[RichardB]

Anyway, without turning this into yet another debate on an unanswerable question - maybe Beethoven would prefer Wendy Carlos's synthetic realisations of his music and think to himself that all pianos, even "modern" ones, are inadequate to his musical vision! - I do think the OP about van Gogh raises some interesting issues. For example, composers from the past might be horrified that most people in the 21st century experience their music through some kind of magical machinery rather than in the presence of human performers. Returning to Beethoven/Carlos, it might be that hearing the music played electronically wouldn't seem that different to Ludwig's ghost from hearing it played through loudspeakers on a carefully mixed and edited recording made by musicians whose knowledge, say, of a Beethoven piano sonata, would be far in excess of anyone alive at the time it was written, let alone that their technique would probably seem unrealistically superhuman to early 19th century ears.

[kernelbogey]

It would also be interesting to have composers from different eras able to listen to, and comment on, later composers. At what (chronological) distance would an appreciation be possible? Haydn hearing, say, Brahms - or Beethoven introduced to Stravinksy...?

[RichardB]

It would also be interesting to have composers from different eras able to listen to, and comment on, later composers. At what (chronological) distance would an appreciation be possible? Haydn hearing, say, Brahms - or Beethoven introduced to Stravinksy...?

Yes, that's an interesting question too, which I remember discussing with a friend many years ago. His opinion was that if Bach were to come back to life he would understand not only Stravinsky but also Boulez and all the rest, because he was a speculative musical thinker too, throughout his life, and if he had actually been alive for 350 years he would have participated in all the new musical discoveries that took place. On the other hand he would probably have disapproved of the increase of atheism among 20th and 21st century composers. On the other other hand he might understand that his own theory of reality had been superseded.

[Forget It (U2079353)]

I'd like to do the same for Emily Dickinson
I think she'd be chuffed.

[RichardB]

I'd like to do the same for Emily Dickinson
I think she'd be chuffed.

(tries to imagine Emily Dickinson using the word "chuffed")

[DracoM]

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes, that's an interesting question too, which I remember discussing with a friend many years ago. His opinion was that if Bach were to come back to life he would understand not only Stravinsky but also Boulez and all the rest, because he was a speculative musical thinker too, throughout his life, and if he had actually been alive for 350 years he would have participated in all the new musical discoveries that took place. On the other hand he would probably have disapproved of the increase of atheism among 20th and 21st century composers. On the other other hand he might understand that his own theory of reality had been superseded.

I've always loved this from the then still-extant composer John Ireland, when asked by author Murray Schafer to offer his reaction to hearing Boulez's Improvisation sur Mallarme II, in a 1962 interview:

"Oh, interesting. He makes rather odd sounds. I liked the little clusters of sounds he obtained from the piano, celesta and the other instruments he used. It was very difficult to make anything of it. I don't know anything about the twelve-tone system you know. It seems to me it destroys the composer's freedom of choice over his material, but I wouldn't like to criticize it without understanding it. Everybody seems to be turning that way today, even Stravinsky. I'd like to know something about it as a matter of interest because I'm always interested in new trends in music. But I think it may only be a phase. Of course it's not possible to shock the ears any more these days. Boulez's sounds didn't shock me, but I found them interesting".

Which is the correct answer!

Seriously though, I like Ireland's reply. For someone of that generation who grew up in the era when, in his words, "Brahms was [thought by some to be] the greatest living composer", who was a near-contemporary of Ravel, and whose own idiom identified with and rarely advanced beyond Ravel's, I think it's remarkably open-minded, even by many people's limiting standards today.

My "if onlys" would be if only Holst had managed to complete the symphony on which he had been working right up to his death, of which the only extant fragment is the remarkable scherzo movement - and the same for Frank Bridge's strings symphony. Both works suggested potential new developments - which I happen not to see in VW's Ninth, notwithstanding recent claims.

[cloughie]

It would also be interesting to have composers from different eras able to listen to, and comment on, later composers. At what (chronological) distance would an appreciation be possible? Haydn hearing, say, Brahms - or Beethoven introduced to Stravinksy...?

Maybe Tallis and RVW!