Expanding One's Taste

[RichardB]

In the bit of text of yours I quote in the original post of this thread you say that 19th century music was one of the last eras of music for you to come around to - would you say that this was a question of not understanding it before, or just that it wasn't to your taste, and also (importantly) how did you get to like it.

I don't think it was a question of not understanding it but of not finding a way to connect with it, perhaps more in emotional terms than anything else. Of course the later Beethoven, all of Bruckner and quite a lot of Mahler is 19th century music, and I never had any problem connecting with their work. In the 1990s I found my way to Schubert and Berlioz, and a bit later Wagner and Schumann, and still more recently Chopin. The poetic world of Brahms or Tchaikovsky I still often find it hard to attune myself to, and Verdi means nothing to me at all.

As for barriers to expanding musical tastes, I would say that the typical "Western classical music training" is perhaps the most significant one I've come across! Derek Bailey writes about classically trained instrumentalists: "There is no generalised technique for playing any musical instrument. However one learns to play an instrument it is always for a specific task. (…) The standard European instrumental education thinks of itself as being an exception to this rule. It is of course a very good example of it. It equips a musician with the ability to perform the standard European repertoire and its derivatives, and perhaps more than any other discipline it limits its adherents’ ability to perform in other musical areas." I think the same sort of thing can often be applied to listening.

[Joseph K]

I don't think it was a question of not understanding it but of not finding a way to connect with it, perhaps more in emotional terms than anything else. Of course the later Beethoven, all of Bruckner and quite a lot of Mahler is 19th century music, and I never had any problem connecting with their work. In the 1990s I found my way to Schubert and Berlioz, and a bit later Wagner and Schumann, and still more recently Chopin. The poetic world of Brahms or Tchaikovsky I still often find it hard to attune myself to, and Verdi means nothing to me at all.

I see.

As for barriers to expanding musical tastes, I would say that the typical "Western classical music training" is perhaps the most significant one I've come across! Derek Bailey writes about classically trained instrumentalists: "There is no generalised technique for playing any musical instrument. However one learns to play an instrument it is always for a specific task. (…) The standard European instrumental education thinks of itself as being an exception to this rule. It is of course a very good example of it. It equips a musician with the ability to perform the standard European repertoire and its derivatives, and perhaps more than any other discipline it limits its adherents’ ability to perform in other musical areas." I think the same sort of thing can often be applied to listening.

Yes, he's quite scathing about jazz too, IIRC. Although I studied music at uni, I think I've bypassed in certain respects 'Western classical music training'. But teaching myself some repertoire on my instrument is certainly a time-consuming business, so that's the main reason why it might limit me performing in other areas - same, I'd imagine, vice versa with jazz musicians, although there are lucky people who can do both classical and jazz to a high standard such as Antoine Boyer and Keith Jarrett. I'm not certain it can be applied to listening - perhaps it depends on the particular orchestra or ensemble, some might be more open to new and different things than others...

[RichardB]

Yes, he's quite scathing about jazz too

I don't think Derek was "against" any particular kind of music - in the book I'm quoting from he interviews improvisers from all walks of musical life. What he's saying is that education in the Western classical tradition tends to involve a normative view of it, when actually it's only one rather specialised way of doing things.

[Joseph K]

I don't think Derek was "against" any particular kind of music - in the book I'm quoting from he interviews improvisers from all walks of musical life. What he's saying is that education in the Western classical tradition tends to involve a normative view of it, when actually it's only one rather specialised way of doing things.

I've read that book...

[gradus]

Re the Thread title, I had no method as Radio/TV, friends and records did it, like the Universe expansion just happened. The only negative force encountered was school music at my Grammar which was just hopeless and if it was aimed at anyone at all, focussed on those who showed an interest in the subject as an academic discipline, thereby missing the chance to enthuse the vast majority of boys in the art form that has drawn in all of us.