Less common keys

[Mario]

Now starting, with a little trepidation, on Grade 6 of Music Theory, which I know is a long, long way behind degree standard.

The syllabus includes Figured Bass (whatever that is), the Baroque and Classical eras, Voice leading and analysis, Modulation (can’t wait for that one!), Transposition and Harmonisation and Cadences (which I never seem to be able to resolve correctly).

I really would like to try to understand the relationship between the various keys better. For the aural exam, we were given specific musical examples (minor 7th? “Somewhere over the rainbow”, minor 3rd? “Greensleeves”, etc).

So what about keys then? The 4th movement of Beethoven’s 5th, C-E-G is C Maj, that’s easy, but Wagner’s famous Tristan chord is beyond me currently, but what about the more obscure keys? For example, I can’t think of a major work in mainstream music that is in Db Maj, or the relative Bb min.

Can posters help please? Nothing atonal for the moment please!

Mario

[Ein Heldenleben]

Now starting, with a little trepidation, on Grade 6 of Music Theory, which I know is a long, long way behind degree standard.

The syllabus includes Figured Bass (whatever that is), the Baroque and Classical eras, Voice leading and analysis, Modulation (can’t wait for that one!), Transposition and Harmonisation and Cadences (which I never seem to be able to resolve correctly).

I really would like to try to understand the relationship between the various keys better. For the aural exam, we were given specific musical examples (minor 7th? “Somewhere over the rainbow”, minor 3rd? “Greensleeves”, etc).

So what about keys then? The 4th movement of Beethoven’s 5th, C-E-G is C Maj, that’s easy, but Wagner’s famous Tristan chord is beyond me currently, but what about the more obscure keys? For example, I can’t think of a major work in mainstream music that is in Db Maj, or the relative Bb min.

Can posters help please? Nothing atonal for the moment please!

Mario

There are plenty of Chopin works in Dflat - one of the Preludes for example . There’s his B flat minor sonata. The middle movement of the Moonlight and Appassionata sonatas are in D Flat. Gotterdamerung ends in Dflat. There’s not a huge amount of orchestral music in Dflat before that because it’s a tricky key for some orchestral instruments.
What key is the Tristan prelude in? Hmm good question . It looks to start in Aminor (its key notation ) but there are no tonic chords. The first chord is the famous Tristan chord with a sort of half diminished chord which resolves into a the dominant of A minor - E7 chord. Then Wagner repeats things ( with a subtle melodic change) a tone higher. The whole things “ends “ on a G which isn’t in the key of A minor . Then we hit the unaccompanied sailors song which has just about every note in the chromatic scale ….it’s going to be a long night before we hit B major (another rare orchestral key).

The prelude doesn’t really have a tonal centre…

I think Over The Rainbow starts with an octave leap - that’s quite rare in Broadway or film songs…

[ahinton]

I think Over The Rainbow starts with an octave leap - that’s quite rare in Broadway or film songs…

Singing in the rain?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Singing in the rain?

Good One. Here’s one I can think of only one sung opera melody that starts with a major 7th . It’s a duet …

[RichardB]

I think Over The Rainbow starts with an octave leap - that’s quite rare in Broadway or film songs…

- as does the chorus of David Bowie's "Starman" which is probably modelled on it!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A few years ago, I was playing in a woodwind quartet with other members of the local music service. We were touring primary schools for a full week, as we did every year. As an oboist, I was the butt of jokes. I decided the flautist had gone too far one day, so I secretly stole some of his parts and retranscribed one of them enharmonically overnight, returning them to his folder on the following morning. The first piece was originally in C major, but was now in B sharp major (5 double sharps + 2 standard ones - 12 "sharps" in total). It was worth the effort just to see his face when he was about to start playing. As I expected, he was still able to play the music, but he was much quieter with his bright remarks after that.

[Mario]

https://flypaper.soundfly.com/tips/interval-cheat-sheet-songs-to-help-you-remember-common-intervals/

Mario

[Ein Heldenleben]

- as does the chorus of David Bowie's "Starman" which is probably modelled on it!

Nice one ..

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

.

I think Over The Rainbow starts with an octave leap - that’s quite rare in Broadway or film songs…

Bali Hai (South Pacific)?

[Mario]

How dare I argue with posters more highly qualified than me, but “Somewhere” IS a min 7th! See my link above in Message 7.

Message 6. Now this is confusing me EA! There is no B# Maj key is there? I know B# is enharmonically C Maj, but can you do that?

Am I allowed from now on to refer to Tchaik’s PC No 1 as being in Cb min?

Mario

Edit: TWIT! It's "Somewhere" in West Side Story! Judy Garland's IS an octave leap - sorry.

Mario

[Ein Heldenleben]

https://flypaper.soundfly.com/tips/i...mon-intervals/

Mario

Another great aid from My Way (Sinatra ) for two tricky intervals to sing

First two notes major sixth (“and now”)
First two notes of second phrase (“my friend “) minor 6th

Flicking through my 100 ballads book checking the above I found another octave leap
The Night We Called It A Day (which is not a song I think I’ve ever heard )

[Ein Heldenleben]

Bali Hai (South Pacific)?

Good one ..though it ends on a major 7th .

[ardcarp]

Yes, post #2 is absolutely correct. Chopin did like keys with a lot of 'black notes'. This may well be because the fingers fly over the sharps (call them flats if you will) more easily for certain melodic patterns. I am no great pianist, but one of my party pieces is Chopin's Fantasy Impromptu in C# minor. Difficult to imagine playing that in the 'easy' key of A minor.

If you're doing the higher gardes of theory Auferstehen, I'd really suggest getting a few lessons from someone in the know. There are so many tricks, e.g. C sharp up to E flat might sound like a major 2nd, but for Ass Board purposes it's actually a diminished 3rd.

BTW I did hear that the ABRSM is changing its theory syllabus for Grades I - V. (Grade V is the one you have to get before progressing to Grade VI practical.) But I haven't checked up on that because I've been out of the teaching loop for a long time.

Going back to well-known tunes for intervals, The Holly and the Ivy starts off with a major 6th, down a whole tone, down a minor third then down a major third back to the starting note. (Good to get choristers singing in tune!) And how many times have you heard the octave leap in the third line of Happy Birthday sung so badly that the tune ends in a completely different key?

[Ein Heldenleben]

How dare I argue with posters more highly qualified than me, but “Somewhere” IS a min 7th! See my link above in Message 7.

Message 6. Now this is confusing me EA! There is no B# Maj key is there? I know B# is enharmonically C Maj, but can you do that?

Am I allowed from now on to refer to Tchaik’s PC No 1 as being in Cb min?

Mario

Edit: TWIT! It's "Somewhere" in West Side Story! Judy Garland's IS an octave leap - sorry.

Mario

Yes Somewhere is a minor seventh and the first five notes have more than a passing resemblance to a section of the main melody in the slow movement of the Emperor Piano Concerto. And that movement , to get back on thread , is in the relatively rare orchestral key of B major

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

How dare I argue with posters more highly qualified than me, but “Somewhere” IS a min 7th! See my link above in Message 7.

Message 6. Now this is confusing me EA! There is no B# Maj key is there? I know B# is enharmonically C Maj, but can you do that?

Am I allowed from now on to refer to Tchaik’s PC No 1 as being in Cb min?

Mario

Edit: TWIT! It's "Somewhere" in West Side Story! Judy Garland's IS an octave leap - sorry.

Mario

Yes and no. There isn't such a key officially, but the are examples of music temporarily modulating from, say, G sharp major (7 sharps) to G sharp major, which has 6 sharps plus one double sharp. The music could reasonably modulate to A flat major, but it might appear to be more clumsy on the page.