Categorisation of Music

[gurnemanz]

That's what discussion should be about, isn't it? The good thing about this forum is that it isn't an echo chamber. I'm not sure, but I think I may have left pop before some of the really interesting stuff came on the scene. For some reason, remembering recently a holiday I had with my family in Weston-super-Mare triggered a memory of the Drifters' then current hit 'Save the Last Dance for Me' which I now see was revived by a Person by the Name of Michael Bublé On the whole I went for what was, I suppose, folk rock, with groups like the Springfields, the Seekers and the Mudlarks ("Their name is Mudd"). Not sure that any of them were worth remembering.

Much Sixties stuff is not at all memorable but I was happy to re-discover in decent sound a whole batch of the songs I used to love but only heard at the time on a cheap tranny via pirate radio.

Our son and partner have just bought a house in Weston-super-Mare and surprisingly we had never been to the town before they did so. Knowing my proclivities, believe it or not, they booked us in for a Sixties Concert at the Playhouse as a birthday present last summer. I have my doubts about such events but it was very well put across and enjoyed by us all. Also a bracing walk on nearby Brean Down.

[Barbirollians]

In any case, jazz has been part of R3's output since before most people here were born, and the classical buffs have given up saying, Can't we just have jazz on the jazz programmes and classical on the classical programmes? We can have just jazz (of various sorts) on the jazz programmes, but much of the erstwhile classical programming is a mix of classical, jazz, folk, world, music theatre, crossover, uncategorisable 'pop' etc etc.

I think jazz was still quite " pop" in the 1940s and 50s .

[french frank]

I think jazz was still quite " pop" in the 1940s and 50s .

Accordng to Wiki (I may have written it, can't remember), JRR was the first regular jazz programme and didn't begin until 1964. Before that I believe the odd piece was played now and again as a subject for anatomising ("Now here's something we don't hear often. I wonder what you think of this?"). My brother had Humph playing Bad Penny Blues, and that was apparently 1956.

[Barbirollians]

Accordng to Wiki (I may have written it, can't remember), JRR was the first regular jazz programme and didn't begin until 1964. Before that I believe the odd piece was played now and again as a subject for anatomising ("Now here's something we don't hear often. I wonder what you think of this?"). My brother had Humph playing Bad Penny Blues, and that was apparently 1956.

My Dad as a teenager went to see Louis Armstrong in London in the 1950s and says most of the audience were young as far as he recalls.

[Ein Heldenleben]

My Dad as a teenager went to see Louis Armstrong in London in the 1950s and says most of the audience were young as far as he recalls.

“Trad “ jazz was the youth music of the fifties until Elvis and Bill Halley came along …

[Padraig]

) My brother had Humph playing Bad Penny Blues, and that was apparently 1956.

It was indeed, f f. I was there! And Johnny Parker played that marvellous piano. Read the comment below the video - a nice bit of categorising there. One of the results of such could be to grade, as well; so that 'Trad' appears at the bottom of a series. Humph moved on from that category unlike some who remain the oddities that they are today! But, better to have loved and lost etc...
Your brother seems to have been he right sort!

https://www.google.com/search?q=bad+penny+blues&oq=bad+penny+blues&aqs=chrome..69i57j46i512j0i395i512j46i395i512j0i395i512l2.12064j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[cloughie]

I agree, but which one on the three?

Choice is difficult - I should stay faithful to the Halle but the Philharmonia recording is sheer beauty but then the Kings Lynn live recording has the terroir there from so late in his life - the Halle 50s recording I knew first when on 2LPs coupled with the Navarra Cello Concerto.
Overall I’ve probably listened most to the Philharmonia but any of the three would be fine. If I can’t immediately put my hands on the Barbirolli I’ll put on the Bryden Thomson!
That Erich Kleiber box looks a gem - had I not got almost all already I’d get it just in case the masterings are better than the ones I’ve garnered over the years.

[cloughie]

I didn't... and, though enjoying this thread, was hesitating to join in until I read the above. I hardly ever listen to current pop music but still appreciate the 60s pop of my youth as much as I ever did and I hope the person I was then never quite goes away, and not just for nostalgic reasons. For me, Sixties Pop is a worthy song sub-genre of its own in its directness, vitality, singability, danceability, rebelliousness, fun, humour, catchiness and diversity, from Masters of War to Lily the Pink, and song in all its manifestations remains my favourite genre whether madrigal, Mussorgsky, Manfred Mann or Mahler. Dylan, Dowland or Debussy. Porter or Prokofiev. Ives or Ivor Cutler.

Becoming a teenager in 1960 gave me the privilege of experiencing what was probably the greatest evolution of music and gave me a voracious appetite for a very wide rage of music throughout my teens and early twenties. The roots you most likely shared gurn!

[kernelbogey]

...I hardly ever listen to current pop music but still appreciate the 60s pop of my youth as much as I ever did....

I'm willilng to stand corrected on this - but I doubt that anyone much uses the term 'pop' now (except perhaps oldies like us who grew up on it in the sixties). I would guess that the music listened to now by (say) teenagers is as manifold, and diverse, in styles as what is loosely known as 'classical' - heavy metal, glam rock, dub, garage, rap &c &c.... and would be known as such.

[RichardB]

I'm willilng to stand corrected on this - but I doubt that anyone much uses the term 'pop' now (except perhaps oldies like us who grew up on it in the sixties). I would guess that the music listened to now by (say) teenagers is as manifold, and diverse, in styles as what is loosely known as 'classical' - heavy metal, glam rock, dub, garage, rap &c &c.... and would be known as such.

Which brings us back to the opening problem... by the way Wikipedia lists 68 subgenres of heavy metal.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm willilng to stand corrected on this - but I doubt that anyone much uses the term 'pop' now (except perhaps oldies like us who grew up on it in the sixties). I would guess that the music listened to now by (say) teenagers is as manifold, and diverse, in styles as what is loosely known as 'classical' - heavy metal, glam rock, dub, garage, rap &c &c.... and would be known as such.

In NME etc it is still used in reviews with terms like dance-pop, country-pop, or even DIY-bedroom-pop or “optimistic-pop” (how nice…)….usually denoting lighter and more tuneful songs/productions, distinct from rap or rock, punk or metal etc… more mainstream than indie or emo, more conventionally melodic than dance or techno etc….

Try some of these....

https://www.nme.com/big-reads/nme-best-albums-of-the-year-2021-3114833

[gurnemanz]

I'm willilng to stand corrected on this - but I doubt that anyone much uses the term 'pop' now (except perhaps oldies like us who grew up on it in the sixties). I would guess that the music listened to now by (say) teenagers is as manifold, and diverse, in styles as what is loosely known as 'classical' - heavy metal, glam rock, dub, garage, rap &c &c.... and would be known as such.

Yes. In the 60s "pop" was used alongside rock n roll, folk, blues, skiffle, jazz etc and often was a new melange of those existing elements, in Britain also with Music Hall thrown in, eg Beatles. Pop was seen, even by itself, as ephemeral, disposable, commercial, accessible and it goes against its essence that a lot of it has stood the test of time. The Stones were harder edged and in retrospect seem more rock than pop, although that term had not yet arrived. Punk rock, folk rock soon came along. Now just "rock" is the general term.

[french frank]

The Stones were harder edged and in retrospect seem more rock than pop, although that term had not yet arrived.

You mean as distinct from "rock 'n' roll"? Blackboard Jungle was released in 1956 when the Teddy Boys started smashing up cinemas wherever it was shown. I did have several Bill Haley records .

[Edgy 2]

I'm willilng to stand corrected on this - but I doubt that anyone much uses the term 'pop' now (except perhaps oldies like us who grew up on it in the sixties). I would guess that the music listened to now by (say) teenagers is as manifold, and diverse, in styles as what is loosely known as 'classical' - heavy metal, glam rock, dub, garage, rap &c &c.... and would be known as such.

Well my 17 yr old eldest grandson hadn't a clue what I was talking about when I used the term pop music the other day (I was lecturing him about proper 'pop' music of my day compared to the dross he listens to).
Apparently what we called pop is now 'tunes' and what I listen to is 'weird classical tunes'

[cloughie]

There is still loads of pop around - look at the pop charts - the likes of Ed Sheeran, Adele, Ariana Grande, Take That all pop!
Most of the daytime output on R2 and BBC local radio is pop!