Originally posted by Darkbloom
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Possibly it’s the way he talks about other performers in such a derogatory way. In order to put forward a musical viewpoint, you don’t have to trash others. Nor is it necessary to justify performance practice by making sweeping unsubstantiated statements. If he’d just performed the works in the style he happens to like, perhaps he wouldn’t have provoked such ire. -
Well, perhaps, but any such reported statements were a long time ago (often exaggerated 2ndhand - any chapter and verse here please?)...Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
This very generous-spirited, devotedly-researched and measured piece is surely more typical and definitive of Norrington's true performance philosophy....
(...rememember what Mahler said, a century earlier: "Tradition ist schlamperei!"....but Norrington makes a wrong assumption about Mahler's Schumann and Beethoven here)...
But it is the recordings that will matter and, I hope, endure....
As D H Lawrence said, never trust the Artist, trust the Tale....Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 11-11-21, 16:36.Comment
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How far can artistic license go?
I consider myself quite open-minded, but there really is a limit!
Am I seriously supposed to, but seriously supposed to give due weight and credence to this monstrosity?
MarioComment
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Here he says: 'If you think you know how to do it, think again.' I assume he applies the rule equally to himself.
Interesting on how he moved forward through the repertoire.
PS Perhaps he might have also said: ' If you think you know how it should be done, think again'?Last edited by french frank; 11-11-21, 16:45.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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Yep that’s pretty much the speed I play it at..Originally posted by Auferstehen View PostHow far can artistic license go?
I consider myself quite open-minded, but there really is a limit!
Am I seriously supposed to, but seriously supposed to give due weight and credence to this monstrosity?
MarioComment
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I was expecting Sir Roger but got Glenn Gould instead?? Ah well, I can see why his épatant les bourgeois with an interpretation of a movement which can be taken at breakneck speed might upset people (Mario - not quite, "Disgusted, Tunbridge Wells", but maybe, "Outraged, Otranto", for example). But I think that the accompanying comment that he "hated" the sonata is wrong. It made me listen to it anew. Not sure that I want to hear it again soon but I'm glad to have been pointed in its direction. Anyway, back to Sir Roger ... I'm looking forward to receiving the Stuttgart Mozart set tomorrow.Originally posted by Auferstehen View PostHow far can artistic license go?
I consider myself quite open-minded, but there really is a limit!
Am I seriously supposed to, but seriously supposed to give due weight and credence to this monstrosity?
MarioComment
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Listening back.... to the SWR Stuttgart Mozart Symphony No.41 in the lunchtime-live series, one is struck by the marvellously vivid sense of the live event - very much an orchestra in an acoustic space with an audience, the performance made and moulded in-the-moment. It is all so spontaneous - relaxed and singing through the middle movements, a lovely strings/wind blend, but with terrific weight, punch and tonal warmth in the first movement and finale (all repeats, 2ndhalf included).
And with a rhetorical flourish, a grand-ritardand, in the splendid final bars (to the audience's enthusiastic acclaim) - Norrington the showman is never far away.
The Norrington sound, yes, but very much the sonically-tangible one-off event, thrillingly created before you. I can only emphasise again just how consistently fine the recorded sound is on the Stuttgart recordings. Great presence and immediacy, but natural and spacious with it. Suono Giusto. One of the main reasons I kept going back for more when the series began. Sometimes its good to be an audiophile...Comment
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I don't think you will be disappointed. I got them as they were originally released as single CDs. They are a treasure trove.Originally posted by HighlandDougie View PostComment
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I'm surprised that nobody has referred to his work with Kent Opera. His Mozart and Gluck were electrifying.Comment
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Well, if you can play it at that speed, then I must confess as a quite miserable Grade 3 pianist, that I struggle to read the score – yes, even at that speed!Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear.Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
As a listener who wishes to pay due respect to the composer that wrote such magnificent music, there is only so much leeway I can give a conductor for his freedom of expression. I am absolutely fascinated by rehearsals, and am captivated when listening to Jansons, Karajan, Muti, etc., slowly moulding the orchestra to achieve the sound they believe the composer wished.
But when they wilfully change the score and “improve” it, as Norrington does – no, I will not allow them that! Sorry, and I know he has his fans here, and I’m trying desperately hard not to troll, but Stokowski doesn’t convince either.
Hence my comment about how far artistic licence can be allowed, and I followed that with the example of that crucifixion of the Appassionata that Gould gave us.
MarioComment
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More dingo's kidneys. Do tell, where are these examples (other than the insertion of Blumine into Mahler's Symphony No.1) that fit your "wilfully change the score and “improve” it, as Norrington does"? It's the likes of Klemperer, Celibidache, et al who did that, often totally going against the specific tempo indications given by the composers, and sometimes changing the instrumentation, too, as Mahler also did with Beethoven, Schumann, et al. Norrington sought to follow just what the composer wrote while also giving life to the resulting performances.Originally posted by Auferstehen View PostWell, if you can play it at that speed, then I must confess as a quite miserable Grade 3 pianist, that I struggle to read the score – yes, even at that speed!
Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear.
As a listener who wishes to pay due respect to the composer that wrote such magnificent music, there is only so much leeway I can give a conductor for his freedom of expression. I am absolutely fascinated by rehearsals, and am captivated when listening to Jansons, Karajan, Muti, etc., slowly moulding the orchestra to achieve the sound they believe the composer wished.
But when they wilfully change the score and “improve” it, as Norrington does – no, I will not allow them that! Sorry, and I know he has his fans here, and I’m trying desperately hard not to troll, but Stokowski doesn’t convince either.
Hence my comment about how far artistic licence can be allowed, and I followed that with the example of that crucifixion of the Appassionata that Gould gave us.
MarioComment
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It’s a funny sonata the Appassionata. It falls into the sounds more difficult than it really is category. It is very hard to play well and musically but not so hard to get through without dropping notes . There are a lot of arpeggios in the first movement which sound very flashy but are pretty easy for a grade 8 pianist. The Aflat second subject needs quite a lot of finger strength and evenness . There are also some slightly testing octaves.Originally posted by Auferstehen View PostWell, if you can play it at that speed, then I must confess as a quite miserable Grade 3 pianist, that I struggle to read the score – yes, even at that speed!
Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear.
As a listener who wishes to pay due respect to the composer that wrote such magnificent music, there is only so much leeway I can give a conductor for his freedom of expression. I am absolutely fascinated by rehearsals, and am captivated when listening to Jansons, Karajan, Muti, etc., slowly moulding the orchestra to achieve the sound they believe the composer wished.
But when they wilfully change the score and “improve” it, as Norrington does – no, I will not allow them that! Sorry, and I know he has his fans here, and I’m trying desperately hard not to troll, but Stokowski doesn’t convince either.
Hence my comment about how far artistic licence can be allowed, and I followed that with the example of that crucifixion of the Appassionata that Gould gave us.
Mario
The finale is the tricky bit . The very opening of it needs a bit of a think as it doesn’t lie under the hand and it puts a lot of pressure on the fourth and fifth (weakest ) fingers .
Incidentally the very opening of the first movement is note for note a minor Version of the first six notes of The Star Spangled Banner.
Keep practicing and in 5 years you’ll be strolling through it.Comment
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I recall seeing the well regarded Kent Opera production of Tippett's King Priam on TV (C4 I think) in the mid 1980s. Surprisingly that performance is still available on DVD:Originally posted by boesendorfer View Post
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Message 41
No Bryn, I won’t.
You’ve taken me to task once before regarding Sir Andras Schiff and I didn’t rise to it, simply because I do not consider this forum as a sacrificial altar on which to cut into little pieces any performer.
I didn’t rise to the bait then, and I shan’t do so now.
I respect the views of Schiff fans and Norrington fans, and as I’ve said once before, I see no purpose in attempting (and failing) to destroy the image of someone held highly – I see nothing to be gained by it.
You tube videos of Norrington rehearsing the Eroica are freely available.
I have no axe to grind and gain nothing by criticising Norrington. I responded as I did because he infuriated me in his attempt to explain the Eroica as a terrifying piece, while grinning in a self-gratifying way on the podium.
That’s enough from me. If others enjoy him, then genuinely Bryn, genuinely, I’m pleased for them.
Best wishes,
MarioComment
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