Sir Roger Norrington to retire

[Ein Heldenleben]

Here's the original thread from 25/07/11, where we discussed the Proms Mahler 9... and a very vigorous exchange of views it inevitably was.....

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?2660-Prom-14-Monday-25th-July-at-7-30-p-m-(Mahler-9)

Ed Seckerson's largely positive review of the recording is in Gramophone 5/2010....

Thanks for reposting this Jayne .As I said upthread went to this concert but didn’t post at the time as I was then in the employ of a major national broadcaster and didn’t think it right to chip in . I thought the performance was excellent even though I’m not generally a fan of vibrato -free strings even in classical period symphonies . The performance was at the end of a very difficult day escorting an ageing relative with a head injury to A and E. If ever music was a balm this was that day so thanks to Sir Roger and his band in retrospect and congratulations on a magnificent career.

[Barbirollians]

I am very fond of his LCP disc of Early Romantic Overtures.

Just picked up a second hand copy for £1 on Amazon !

[Braunschlag]

And that says it all - I was seduced by RN and then it all went wrong.

[Bryn]

And that says it all - I was seduced by RN and then it all went wrong.

Hopefully, you will get better.

[Braunschlag]

It won't improve at all

[cloughie]

And that says it all - I was seduced by RN and then it all went wrong.

LCP was good and then…he went too far. Music that required warmth and feeling was sold short!

[jayne lee wilson]

LCP was good and then…he went too far. Music that required warmth and feeling was sold short!

If you compare the LCP and SWR Stuttgart recordings of, say, Schubert 4, 5 and 6, or the Bruckner 1873 3rd, (but many others) you hear a consistently greater tonal warmth and fullness in Stuttgart.....sweeter more individual winds.

I enjoy both vintages, but the SWR recordings are often the more tonally gratifying. Lovely string section, warmly textured but with great rhythmical spring and resilience...

****
Compare the inner movements of the Schubert 6th to see what I mean. LCP are quite cool and spare in a more distanced recording. The SWR have the aforementioned tonal seductions, in a more immediate acoustic setting with noticably more powerful tuttis. Norrington's SWR Schubert Symphonies, so full of schwung, charm and humour, are among my very favourites for the repertoire. With 4-6, I fell in love from the first bars.

(I often get the impression that fewer listeners have heard, or listened closely to, his SWR tapings, compared to the LCP: that is a great shame, as they really are among the finest classical sets out there, often by widespread critical consent. The Haydn London Symphonies are a marvellous achievement, and in exceptionally realistic, beautifully-balanced recorded sound).

Schubert 6th playing now.... just gorgeous!
(The tempi for the finale can be tricky.... just right here, with perky winds and wonderful dynamic contrasts between the delicate and the punchy.)

I let the D759 play on after it....utterly compelling.
Norrington has the measure of its originality, tragic weight and expressive power; as if he's placing it in a wider artistic and literary context. Outstanding performance, again; and an advance on his already impressive LCP version. What a doublebass sound he creates!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

LCP was good and then…he went too far. Music that required warmth and feeling was sold short!

More than a touch of The Emperor’s New Clothes emerged in the Stuttgart era, with the personal vendetta against vibrato.

[Bryn]

More than a touch of The Emperor’s New Clothes emerged in the Stuttgart era, with the personal vendetta against vibrato.

Sorry, but what a load of para-Hurwirtiz dingo's kidneys. Norrington spoke up for restraining Hollywood vibrato, using his self-confessed thespian tendencies to ram the point home, while many of his HIPP colleagues kept fairly quiet on the subject while following a similar path in practice. Meanwhile, all too many of his detractors happily failed to hear (or even see) members of 'his' Stuttgarters employing vibrato with a subtlety lacking in those following the Hollywood trend of vibrato as the fall-back substitute for creative expression. Not that I feel he always gets it right. His insertion of the unrevised Blumine into Mahler's Symphony No.1 was far from the composer's clear intentions in the development of the work, for instance.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sorry, but what a load of para-Hurwirtiz dingo's kidneys. Norrington spoke up for restraining Hollywood vibrato, using his self-confessed thespian tendencies to ram the point home, while many of his HIPP colleagues kept fairly quiet on the subject while following a similar path in practice. Meanwhile, all too many of his detractors happily failed to hear (or even see) members of 'his' Stuttgarters employing vibrato with a subtlety lacking in those following the Hollywood trend of vibrato as the fall-back substitute for creative expression. Not that I feel he always gets it right. His insertion of the unrevised Blumine into Mahler's Symphony No.1 was far from the composer's clear intentions in the development of the work, for instance.

Well, I’m no fan of Hurwitz, who also likes to be centre stage. But even he may be right for some of the time.
Both of them have manipulated history to make their different viewpoints, doing neither of them much credit.

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes, Hurwitz is right some of time.... like the proverbial stopped clock.

I wish more here would do the listening....the LCP/SWR differences I specified above are very obvious.
Completely different orchestral palettes, from which the interpretations develop accordingly.

Norrington's readings are about so much more than his restrained use of vibrato. But he has a sound, like most great orchestral conductors; that is what will endure, beyond such narrow debates; the power and individuality of his recordings.
I would defy anyone to listen closely to his SWR Stuttgart Schubert 4th, 5th, 6th or 8th, and not come away from the experience at least a little impressed, even if, finally, they adhered to other or earlier favourites.

I listened to them again last night, as I reported. The SWR string section is wonderfully powerful, rich, deep and flexible; the winds sing out expressively - that was at the very least, Norrington's creation. But you have to hear it, to know it.

This was one of the great partnerships, and tragically truncated for financial reasons; I feel that musically-sensitive people will listen to their Hanssler catalogue for as long as classical music matters.

..... I'm not sure how the SWR Orchestra-Merger is doing now...

[Mario]

…he went too far.

Agreed. His latest Eroica is without question the greatest betrayal of a Beethoven work I've ever heard. He went from my very high esteem in the Beethoven weekend many, many years ago, to something resembling a clown in his later years.

para-Hurwirtiz dingo's kidneys.

Jeez, I thought I spoke good English!

Mario

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, Hurwitz is right some of time.... like the proverbial stopped clock.

I wish more here would do the listening....the LCP/SWR differences I specified above are very obvious.
Completely different orchestral palettes, from which the interpretations develop accordingly.

Norrington's readings are about so much more than his restrained use of vibrato. But he has a sound, like most great orchestral conductors; that is what will endure, beyond such narrow debates; the power and individuality of his recordings
I would defy anyone to listen closely to his SWR Stuttgart Schubert 4th, 5th, 6th or 8th, and not come away from the experience at least a little impressed, even if, finally, they adhered to other or earlier favourites....

I listened to them again last night, as I reported. The SWR string section is wonderfully powerful, rich, deep and flexible; the winds sing out expressively - that was at the very least, Norrington's creation. But you have to hear it, to know it.

This was one of the great partnerships, and tragically truncated for financial reasons; I feel that musically-sensitive people will listen to their Hanssler catalogue for as long as classical music matters.

..... I'm not sure how the SWR Orchestra-Merger is doing now...

If nothing else he deserves a medal from the incorporated society of woodwind players for making their artistry audible and indeed their key contribution to the 19th symphonic texture. You are not so aware of it on recordings with spot miking but in live performance the woodwinds a lot of the time needn’t bother. They just got lost in the string texture . During lockdown , with reduced string sections , they magically resurfaced…

[Bryn]

Agreed. His latest Eroica is without question the greatest betrayal of a Beethoven work I've ever heard. He went from my very high esteem in the Beethoven weekend many, many years ago, to something resembling a clown in his later years.






Jeez, I thought I spoke good English!

Mario

It's in the DNA.

[Darkbloom]

I have never understood why some people get upset by Norrington; they're not being forced to listen. At worst, he'll make people return to their old favourites with renewed appreciation. He confirms my view that the secret to a long life is to be slightly bonkers, and it's really hard to believe he is in his mid-eighties now.